The Gentiles Times Reconsidered--Again but this Time By Using the Bible (page 62)

jayhawk1

Flash, I also feel the need to repeat this as well.

You said,

ackack
How do you get around the whole October 1914 thing vs. World War 1 starting in July? Or do you think this is much of a problem?
thirdwitness's reply was that Satan knowing he was going to be cast out, came down to earth before hand to cause trouble. He didn't provide any biblical or ever watchtower support for that statement, so its probably just his or her own private speculation.
No, I don't think its a problem at all. Satan and his army had full access to heaven and earth. When Christ was installed as King He exiled Satan and his forces to the area of the earth. The bible says Satan had "great anger" so its no surprise to me that he would start preparing to cause "Woe to the earth..." even before his exile.

I repeat, Aha! So Satan came to earth and convinced Gavrilo Princip to shoot Archduke Ferdinand, June 28, 1914 just to get the party started a little early. I wonder if Satan used a snake to do his talking too. What a load. Indeed, what a load of crap. Again, when you look at WWI you are seeing a problem that arose from the Balkan Wars of 1912-1913 when alliances was formed. Combine this with the dawn of the Industrial Revolution and guess what happens. That's right a world war. I fail to see any evidence that any of this was caused by a supernatural creature. The burden of proof is on you if you care to debate it.

AuldSoul

Barry,

I know you were ignored, but you were not, I assure you, unnoticed.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/118775/2095159/post.ashx#2095159

That is an excellent post and great questions that haven't yet been addressed. The fact of the matter is that when 1914 was first latched on to, the understanding was that the message had been preached between 1879 and 1914. Which makes your questions wonderfully applicable to the point under discussion.

Respectfully,
AuldSoul

jayhawk1

I want to throw this question out to anybody who can answer it.

Which greek word is rendered "Coming" in Revelation 1:8?

It may have already been answered, but I have not carefully studied every post.

AuldSoul

jayhawk1,

That would be erchomenos, meaning "is to come," or "is due to arrive." Obviously a form of erchomai.

Respectfully,
AuldSoul

thirdwitness

Auldsoul said:

Matthew 24:45-47

45 “Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time? 46 Happy is that slave if his master on arriving finds him doing so. 47 Truly I say to YOU, He will appoint him over all his belongings.

"Arriving" is erchomai. JWs teach that Jesus, the master, has already appointed the happy slave over all the master's belongings. But these verses require that the erchomai precedes that appointment. Thus, stevenyc's question. Your answer failed to answer the question. Would you care to try once more?

This is a case when you are trying to assign erchomai some magic special status. Its just a verb. It means arriving or coming. Let me say this again, Jesus did erchomai in 1914 as king. His parousia or presence began at that time. The Bible shows that first he erchomai forth and inspected the house of God and his temple. He at that time apponted the FDS over all the earthly belongings. He will echomai forth at the end of his presence to destroy the wicked.

Please under that erchomai has no special connotation to Christ's coming in 1914 or Armageddon. It is just a verb that can be used for anyone who comes to do something. It describes in these verses in Matt 24 the action that Christ takes during his parousia.

So to summarize, it is during Christ's parousia that he comes forth and inspects the temple. It is also during Christ's parousia that he comes forth and gathers his people. Likewise it is also during Christ's parousia that he comes forth and brings the holy ones to heaven. And it is also during Christ's parousia that he comes forth and destroys false religion. Also during Christ's parousia he comes forth and destroys the governments and all the wicked. Now I hope you can see that Christ comes forth and does a whole lot of things during his parousia. Parousia is an extended visit of a king. In this case in Matthew 24 the king is Jesus.

jayhawk1

Thanks, Auldsoul, now I can take that knowledge and apply it to what has been presented in the previous pages. I saw it, and became very curious for some reason. Looks like the NWT has that one close enough to not fight over. It is what they do to a scripture after that, that I don't agree with.

For instance the preceeding verse (Rev 1:7) speaks of Jesus coming and all eyes will see him. Now if Jesus did arrive or come in 1914, how could all eyes see him if his presence is invisable?

Now I could even be talked into Jesus' presence being an invisable one if his coming as King was somehow felt by ALL citizens of the Earth. That did not happen in 1914 or since. There has not been a Jehovah's Witness yet who can make a convincing arguement on this one. Their arguements thus far have all required speculation and leaps of faith to buy into their theory.

hillary_step

Hellrider,

I believe that I ( ThirdWitness ) have answered every question posed to me on this subject

His trouble is that he was born with a silver platter in his mouth.

HS

AuldSoul

thirdwitness: So to summarize, it is during Christ's parousia that he comes forth and inspects the temple. It is also during Christ's parousia that he comes forth and gathers his people. Likewise it is also during Christ's parousia that he comes forth and brings the holy ones to heaven. And it is also during Christ's parousia that he comes forth and destroys false religion. Also during Christ's parousia he comes forth and destroys the governments and all the wicked. Now I hope you can see that Christ comes forth and does a whole lot of things during his parousia. Parousia is an extended visit of a king. In this case in Matthew 24 the king is Jesus.

I would like to draw the attention of all lurkers to the ways in which this summary chops up Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21. Also, please note that these assertions are 100% interpretations of men. Also note that every single one of these assertions of meaning has shifted in the stream of time and in meaning since Zion's Watchtower and Herald of Christ's Presence was first published in 1879, thereby proving that the current viewpoint of Jehovah's Witnesses is possibly wrong.

Thank you, thirdwitness. Now, please respond to my post regarding Revelation 1. I am sure it will be equally confidence inspiring. I would also love to see your response (as would many JW and never-been-JW lurkers here) regarding the lack of Scriptures to support the pre-baptismal requirements of Jehovah's Witnesses.

AuldSoul

hillary_step,

His trouble is that he was born with a silver platter in his mouth.

You must mean a silvered platter. If you scratch the surface you find out it's phony.

Respectfully,
AuldSoul

hillary_step

ThirdWitness,

Arriving" is erchomai. JWs teach that Jesus, the master, has already appointed the happy slave over all the master's belongings. But these verses require that the erchomai precedes that appointment. Thus, stevenyc's question. Your answer failed to answer the question. Would you care to try once more? This is a case when you are trying to assign erchomai some magic special status. Its just a verb. It means arriving or coming. Let me say this again, Jesus did erchomai in 1914 as king. His parousia or presence began at that time. The Bible shows that first he erchomai forth and inspected the house of God and his temple. He at that time apponted the FDS over all the earthly belongings. He will echomai forth at the end of his presence to destroy the wicked. Please under that erchomai has no special connotation to Christ's coming in 1914 or Armageddon. It is just a verb that can be used for anyone who comes to do something. It describes in these verses in Matt 24 the action that Christ takes during his parousia. So to summarize, it is during Christ's parousia that he comes forth and inspects the temple. It is also during Christ's parousia that he comes forth and gathers his people. Likewise it is also during Christ's parousia that he comes forth and brings the holy ones to heaven. And it is also during Christ's parousia that he comes forth and destroys false religion. Also during Christ's parousia he comes forth and destroys the governments and all the wicked. Now I hope you can see that Christ comes forth and does a whole lot of things during his parousia. Parousia is an extended visit of a king. In this case in Matthew 24 the king is Jesus.

Preaching not debating.

Try again.

HS

The Gentiles Times Reconsidered--Again but this Time By Using the Bible

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