In the big scheme of things, Jesus'....

by SixofNine 74 Replies latest jw friends

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  SixofNine

  So each side has its facts, so I say to myself with my very limited education and book learning, "I think its better to beleive in God and Jesus it makes more sense to me"

  That would be fine, except.... It isn't really God your believing in is it? It is the mishmashed scribblings of the thoughts of Hebrew religious leaders. Some not so nice hebrew men in many cases.

  Also, it seems to me you are probably believing in the collective beliefs of those before you, and those you thought you should respect: your mommy and daddy, and most of the people you have known and admired in your life. But a kid growing up in China certainly doesn't "think it's better to believe in God and Jesus it makes more sense."

  If it really makes sense, Winston, why doesn't it make sense to the average Chinese person? Or the average person raised Muslim? They have all the mental abilities you have, but it doesn't "just make sense" to them. For that matter, why doesn't it make sense to me?

  Also, and I mean this in all sincerity, what "facts" do bible believers bring to the table? I've been fairly screaming for someone to give me one good reason to believe the bible came from God for almost a year on this board, and no one has even attemted to bring any "facts" to reason so.
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  drahcir yarrum

  I'm considering re-establishing the religion of the Greek mythology. You know, Zeus, Neptune, etc. As a religion it has every bit as much merit as any other religion. Who knows how much money one could raise if declaring himself a priest or spokesman for the Greek gods.

  Any suggestions on a location for a temple?
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  Introspection

  Six said:

  ...suffering was not so bad. His "perfection" and understanding of the situation would certainly have mitigated his suffering.
  His death was not really death, not in any meaningful sense. It was a 15 second nap, using Bible reasoning.

  I appreciate how these statements were qualified in those last three words. Though I respect the Bible as many do, I would have to say that if you rely on it alone then not only are you working with a closed system, but it can in fact be a form of idolatry. (God's supposed to come into the picture at some point right? Anybody can read a book) Now I'm pretty out of touch, but I do recall that traditionally some Bibles have Jesus' words in red. What I'm trying to point out is simply that there's Jesus, and there's the Bible. One can get caught up with Christian teachings that they fail to realize that their understanding of him is really based upon preconceived ideas. I think reading what Jesus himself said is a good place to start, but sometimes other non-orthodox ideas might surprise you. For example, I find it interesting that some Buddhists think of Jesus as a Bodhisattva, which is an enlightened being that returns or forgo Nirvana in order to help all others awake. In any case, I think the lessons are found in some kind of understanding and realization rather than the nitty gritty of identity as we have in standard theology. (in the latter case, it is JUST belief) It's nice to find comfort and assurance in the scriptures, but I also think that some spiritual maturation is called for.
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  Julie

  Rex!!!

  I am so glad to see you made it back!! I thought that your lack of reply indicated something awful had happened to you as I was certain such a zealous crusader for truth and enlightenment as you would never deliberately avoid answering my reply to you in Mired in Atheism.

  Thankfully you are well. I look forward to your reply as I complied to your request and I know you are honorable to hold up your end of the bargain. You are, aren't you?

  Julie
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  siegswife

  Sixofnine, You ask for 'facts' to prove that God is the Source of the Bible. Can I ask you something? What is the 'source' of what you believe? What is the 'source' of your doubt? Can you provide 'facts' to prove that what you believe is true? Isn't faith a matter of perception?
  To those that have 'faith' in the Bible, it makes perfect sense. To those who don't have that 'faith' it is nonsense. To those who subscribe to atheism, their way makes sense because they say it is based on factual evidence. Yet most of this 'evidence' is actually the perception of other men. How many of you have seen any of this 'evidence' with your own eyes? Aren't you really putting trust in another mans assessment of it? Aren't YOU in fact putting FAITH in the inspiration and/or intellect of other men?
  How can you prove or disprove the inspiration of men other than to see whether it itself PROVES to be true? From what I understand, the prophesies of the Bible have proved to be true in the past. The way that the world is going is still proving that what the Bible says is true.
  The Bible says that the way of men apart from God only leads to destruction. Hasn't this been proven time and time again and is still being proven? Can you think of anything that men can do of their own initiative that leads to peace, prosperity, fairness, and happiness for all men? If they CAN do that on their own, why is the world such a screwed up place? Don't say because of religion either, because although some of the destructive things have occured in the name of religion, so too have destructive things occured by the will of those without religion.
  The Bible says that these things are actually the desire of men, not God. Can you show me any 'facts' that prove that what you believe will lead to anything beneficial for anyone?

  The tree is proved righteous by its fruit