auld soul; your right i should have left out the part about, the dog. but it turns out to be a true story , i was walking the dog and got into a heated debate, with a jw. well the jw was losing the arguement, and tried switching to the dog. how cute it was etc. i pulled the dog away and told the jw. not to touch it. he may be able to teach the dog to shun me and hate me. just like the jw's taught my dad to hate me. the jw got very upset. but i made my point. Zarco seems like a nice enough guy. who has many questions. which he is searching for answers. and if he's honest with him self he will find them . john
Say You're a Bethelite & Monitoring JWD - How Would You Feel About THESE??
by Seeker4 356 Replies latest jw friends
-
-
sf
elders such as yourself who care deeply about the flock and who do their best to help them while having to struggle with thier own doubts
Okay, this quote has really set me off. I respect your right to say it though Arthur and am actually glad you did. Because I have something very blunt to say about its dynamic.
These will be my opinions, feeling and thoughts. As I said above, it will be blunt.
And like johnny just let bleed his life experience of pain living inside this organization and how it drives him to push the real truth so hard, even as an adult who no longer believes in the lies and corruption, I too will bleed a little. Two things most people get shakey over…blood and raw truth. Hope I don’t make many too uncomfortable. Yet, my spirit is moving me to say this:
Elders such as your-selves who care deeply about the flock and who do their best to help them while having to struggle their own doubts SHOULD BE AT THE CONGREGATION AND/ OR ASSEMBLY PODIUMS, WHILE THE K.H. IS ON PREVERBIAL FIRE WARNING THEM OF HOW TO GET OUT THEMSELVES BEFORE THEY EXIT THEM-SELVES. ONLY AFTER YOU HAVE GIVEN THE FLOCK, THAT YOU DEEPLY CARE ABOUT, EVEN THOUGH YOU ARE ON FIRE WITH DOUBTS AND ARE STRUGGLING TO EXIT YOUR-SELF, SOMEWAY OUT OF THE IMPENDING COLLAPSE.
IF YOU LEAVE BEFORE ANY OF THIS, YOU ARE NOT AN ELDER, C.O., P.O., D.O., G.B. WHO DEEPLY CARES ABOUT ANY OF YOUR "BURNING FLOCK".
To sit here, on an active and massive "opposing the WTBTS forum/ apostate haven" and profess your "deep concern" for people who may burn alive makes my untransfused blood boil over.
Boo hoo you rank and file members who post here, while instructing, through talks and publications,the evils of apostate association on and offline. Your hypocrisy infuriates me.
YOUR struggles?? Please. Try having your entire life ripped apart by some corrupt book publishing fraud disguised as a religion of love and truth, that states you must try and recruit family members or they will die at armageddon. THAT’S THE REAL TRUTH ABOUT THIS ORG. TELL YOUR FLOCK THIS TRUTH SO THEY CAN PLAN AN EXIT STRATEGY THEM-SELVES.
You rank and file members need to stop thinking about your-SELVES and YOUR struggles and how YOU are a deeply concerned leader of your flocks, while sitting here crying to your opposers. You have literally thousands of lives that rely on you as a representative of jehovahs mouthpiece here on earth, the g.b. of WTBTS. You have a duty to speak what you have learned as lies and that you will no longer teach and preach these lies. How self-centered is it to know truth and not share it? Tell me brothers. Will it actually take an "apostate" to speak up at the meetings to tell the truth about your online associations with "apostates and opposers"? (Wonder how many rank/ file members who post here have went to an apostofest, incognito....man, talk about your hypocrisy...i would not doubt this has occured)
Stop crying and struggling as leaders that KNOW THE TRUTH BUT STAY IM ANYWAY AND ASSOCIATE WITH "APOSTATES". Stand up to the podium and tell the flock that you will no longer preach and teach that annything coming from WTBTS is actually coming from "jehovah god himself". That the WTBTS is very much involved in world and political affairs of "this wicked system of things that will be destroyed. Tell them that you will not be a part of fostering hatred and destroying families over policies and doctrines that are grossly misinterpreted to suit WT LITERATURE. TELL YOUR FLOCK THE TRUTH ABOUT WHAT YOU KNOW NOW ABOUT THIS ORGANIZATION AND ITS RELIGIOUS FRAUD KNOWN AS JEHOVAHS WITNESSES. BEFORE YOU EXIT OUT THE DOOR YOUR-SELF.
Tell them the truth about the U.N., the CHILD ABUSE FACTS AND CASES, That the blood policy is based largely on MISREPRESENTATION OF SECULAR FACTS, tell them that the shunning policy is a complete abomination and should be abolished. That you are exiting the organization knowing that you have told the truth in order that the seed be planted in each "sheep" you deeply care about.
Pick up your briefcase. Put the k.h./ assembly hall keys on the literature counter, along with your no-blood card and any other WTBTS/ JW paraphenalia. Keep the literature though. You’ll be glad you did.
If someone follows you out of the "fire", by some of your "exit strategy", that will be great. If no one follows you out, you will at least be able to know that you TOLD THEM THERE WAS A "FIRE" AND TRIED TO HELP THEM OUT. BUT TO EXIT BEFORE SO WOULD BE selfish and cowardly.
Reading this forum is a great tool that you can share with your flock. IF ITS OKAY FOR YOU, AND YOU ARE GAINING INSIGHT, TRUTH AND A WAY OUT OF THE "FIRE", SHARE IT WITH THEM. THAT’S TRUE CONCERN, BROTHERS. TELL THEM ITS OKAY TO READ THIS SITE. ITS OKAY TO GO BEYOND WHAT IS WRITTEN. ITS OKAY TO QUESTION AND SEARCH FOR ACCURATE KNOWLEDGE. PUT THIS WEBSITE URL UP ON THE BULLETIN BOARD. TELL THEM THE BEST THREADS. I’M DEAD SERIOUS HERE. I’M NOT KIDDING. PUT UP A MEMO IN THE K.H. WITH SITES THAT ARE HELPFUL: FREEMINDS, SILENTLAMBS, JWD, AND MANY OTHERS. TELL THEM TO NOT FEAR THE INTERNET.
While doing the WT study on Sundays, GO OVER BLONDIES THREADS WITH THE FLOCK. GO OUTSIDE OF THE WT BOX BROTHERS.
It is vital that you rank and file that post here start speaking the truth AT THE PODIUM and other meetings. Don’t remain silent and in F.E.A.R. The more you speak out the truth, the more empowered you become and that fear is just that…False Evidence Appearing Real.
~deep sigh of relief~
These thoughts and feelings have been in me a long time and this thread hit a raw nerve. I suppose it is why I do what I do to help others out of the "fire". I can’t imagine walking away not having given others a way out too.
At LEAST get up there and tell them THE TRUTH.
Thank you for allowing me my freedom to express how I truthfully think and feel. I have so much more on this, yet this will suffice, for now. I need to calm down.
Oh, just a little sidenote zarco on elders and their deep concern for the flock. My mom ended up marrying the very elder who disfellowshipped three of her kids...can you help me process this insanity? For him to actually pursue her AFTER he cans her kids is one thing. For her to marry him, after breaking up the family he already had, is the rawest of my nervousations. (Don't worry, if I were a loving elder as yourself, I would not want to even try to process this question into a logical reply...you are off the hook brother)
{{{{{{{johnny, I know exactly how you feel about this org and the feelings you had as a kid…I thought and felt the very same way….i KNEW something was really wrong about our lives and how my mom dumped our extended family for a bunch of strange people, but what could I do…nothing…until I was old enough…I don’t understand adults who remain in this organization and even fear its stupid, lethal and corrupt policies…they are adults fearing something that’s easy to find the truth about…I don’t see where there is any excuse not to start an investigation and search into a religion that asks you to sign a card that is basically a death warrant for you child…I could go on but I need to go try to simmer down…I’m boiling right now….love you my friend}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
Interesting that AuldSoul says nothing about anything intimate you just shared johnny. Interesting, that's all.
Sincerely, sKally
-
AuldSoul
sf: i KNEW something was really wrong about our lives and how my mom dumped our extended family for a bunch of strange people, but what could I do…nothing…until I was old enough…I don’t understand adults who remain in this organization and even fear its stupid, lethal and corrupt policies
Skally,
Not everyone has your experiences, not everyone will react like you did, and it is bordering on stupidity (in my opinion) to expect that they would.
I, for instance, DIDN'T know something was really wrong about our lives. My parents DIDN'T dump my extended family, all my extended family were JWs. I dumped my extended family to leave that organization and its stupid, lethal and corrupt policies. Rather, they dumped me after I made that choice, and I knew that was likely, and if you can't empathize with somebody being hesitant to face the REAL consequences of the stupid, lethal and corrupt policies then, in my opinion, you don't have much empathy.
sf: Try having your entire life ripped apart by some corrupt book publishing fraud disguised as a religion of love and truth, that states you must try and recruit family members or they will die at armageddon.
If I understand correctly, that is what Zarco is trying to avoid. What I tried to avoid. What a hell of a lot of people try to avoid. Pain is not a pleasant prospect to anyone but a masochist, and this organization can inflict genuine pain.
sf: I can’t imagine walking away not having given others a way out too.
I would have recoiled from your post or johnny's immediately, two years ago. What "way out" are you giving Zarco? Or anyone else?
"Go out in a blaze of glory! Appear to be the madman apostate everyone says apostates are! Prove the WTS right about apostates just trying to get others to follow them out!" That is the summary of your post, Skally. I personally believe Zarco could reach a lot more people a lot more effectively if he ignores every bit of your counsel.
I am a sixth-grade dropout with a GED. My parents and extended family have cut me off completely. You think I WASN'T HURT by their policies!?
johnny cip: i was told CLEARLY THE WT HAS NOTHING TO HIDE. "LOOK UP ANY THING IN WT BOOKS I WANTED. I WOULD FIND NOTHING BAD" it was all food from JEHOVAH'S TABLE. well it only took about a month.
sf: Interesting that AuldSoul says nothing about anything intimate you just shared johnny.
Hardly a rare experience, and I empathize with what he went through. Except for the fact that I did not live at home, and so I wasn't kicked out on the streets, it is almost as though I wrote his experience about myself. My dad (the local PO) said, "Well, son, if you think there's more to find, go find it. Do whatever research you feel you need to do." I did. Within a month, I knew.
Interesting you think I have to comment on something intimate to avoid being interesting. Interesting, that's all.
sf: I’m boiling right now
In my opinion, you really need to get a grip and direct that rage toward those who deserve it. People who come here questioning DO NOT DESERVE YOUR RAGE, no matter what position they hold in the organization, or what personal decisions they make about how to proceed getting answers to their questions, or what decision they finally make after investigating whatever they feel they need to investigate.
Unless you are them, you don't have to live with the consequences of their decisions. Only they know what consequences they can live with. I could tell you were boiling. You aren't the first person to say asinine things while angry. You won't be the last. My recommendation to Zarco (and Doubting Bro, et. al.) would be to overlook your comments as clearly misdirected rage, even possibly transferrence.
sf: Elders such as your-selves who care deeply about the flock and who do their best to help them while having to struggle their own doubts SHOULD BE AT THE CONGREGATION AND/ OR ASSEMBLY PODIUMS, WHILE THE K.H. IS ON PREVERBIAL FIRE WARNING THEM OF HOW TO GET OUT THEMSELVES BEFORE THEY EXIT THEMSELVES.
Yep. I read nearly the same thing in counsel to those in false religions in the pages of the Watchtower. "Get out of her, my people, if you do not want to share with her in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues." Seems I recall a lot of blowhard types telling me what I should or should not do. I learned to stand right up in their faces and tell them to make me. I've often wondered why I was only a ministerial servant for minute or two when I was 17 . . . not really. If you ever feel compelled to use the word SHOULD when directed at a poster on a thread I've been following, prepare for a firm reminder to, "Get stuffed, dictatorial a**!"
You do not know Zarco, you definitely don't have his circumstances, and you have no business or place informing him (or anyone else) of what he "should" do.
The damn thing is a CULT, fer cripes sake! The elders aren't the cult leaders. They aren't even middle-management. If the rank and file are dog snot, the elders are the dog's nose hairs. They have no authority unless it is allowed by their cult-leaders, same as the rank and file. Breaking free from a cult is not an easy thing, and there are TONS of considerations that can complicate the process WAY beyond your overly simplistic little suggested step-by-step solution.
I don't think it is selfish to want to keep a wife, or to want to keep communication lines open with family, or to worry about whether your wife divorcing you would impact your children, or worry about ailing parents who are JWs and the impacts on them. I don't think it is selfish to worry about any business considerations, or to worry about whether the evidence that you have of corruption is sufficient to risk the trouble and stress it will bring to your life.
Calling those kinds of worries and wants "selfish" is beyond borderline stupid, in my opinion. I hope you weren't calling those kinds of real-life practical considerations instances of selfishness, Skally. I'm hoping you just didn't think through, thoroughly. I'd hate to think of you as stupid. Up until now, I haven't even come close.
johnny cip doesn't strike me as the sort that needs your protection from me, and I didn't really think johnny cip was put out with me at all. To make clear, I am not defending anyone here but myself. Your post was offensive to me, personally. My reaction went beyond annoyance, with you personally. I am discussing principles in my response that drew other people's names into the discussion, but I am not defending them beyond defending their reasonable right to choose a different course than you would direct for them.
I sure am glad I have nothing to prove to you. I'm nothing, and I know it. You came across as being oblivious to your relative stature.
Sincerely,
AuldSoul -
AuldSoul
john,
Zarco seems like a nice enough guy. who has many questions. which he is searching for answers. and if he's honest with him self he will find them.
Yep. I got the same read. And I know for myself, being honest . . . really honest with myself didn't come easy when I wanted so badly to be wrong about what I was finding. I have every confidence he's going to find his answers.
Respectfully,
AuldSoul -
sf
AuldSoul,
My post was for all rank/ file that still are rank/ file but hypocritically come here, in secret, benefiting from it's massive amount of info and insight, not to mention documents, to plan their exit, yet don't share it with their flock, who they deeply care about.
I already stated pretty precisely what true concern would actually look like to the flock. This board only allows me to express myself to a degree. Surely, if we spoke in voice, as I did for years in jw chatrooms about this org., you would appreciate my infuriation a bit better.
I don't and didn't expect any of the rank/ file or ex rank/ file to fully comprehend my thoughts and feelings. To try and see clearly how I truly feel about rank/ file, ex or active will be difficult task for you. Trust me, it's pretty raw. What I do with that pain now is actively, on and offline, speak out about this organizations lethal and destructive policies. It helps a great deal as a "bandage". Feels better than just feeling the pain. But scars. Those are different. They are tender to the touch.
Ever done this:You "bump" them and they start throbbing and stinging real bad for a few minutes. You rub it and it starts to feel better again. Scars never fade away. You live with them.
I just thought it was interesting that you "cared deeply enough" defending the apologists (as YOU called them) and said nothing "deeply caring", as an EX ELDER, to johnny about anything he shared. Not that anyone notices, but johnny and I rarely open ourSELVES and talk about our experience. Much of It is still THAT raw.
You are right. I was not an elder. I'm not even a man, for that matter. I cannot know what it is like to have that kind of control over peoples lives and especially their relationship with God. I'm sure of one thing though if I ever were, and stayed in a lethal organization knowing the truth about it.
Honestly, I only skimmed your post. I'm not in the mood for ANY rank/ file or ex rank/ file right about now. None of "you" can re-shape what I feel about your "rankage". I've hated this religion since I was a child forced in. I won't be patronized.
I stand by everything I posted.
My main point is simply: IF ONLY YOU AND SO MANY OTHERS WOULD HAVE GRABBED YOUR PRIDE AND TOLD YOUR FLOCK THAT IT WAS/ IS OKAY TO GO TO THIS SITE AND TO READ ABOUT THIS ORG. TO GAIN TRUE ACCURATE KNOWLEDGE. BUT YOU DIDN'T DO THIS. YOU LEFT WITHOUT TRULY SPEAKING OUT, AT THE PODIUM. It's not that hard to leave if YOU SHARE THE TRUTH WITH THE FLOCK YOU CARE ABOUT...BEFORE YOU EXIT YOURSELF.
I'm very tired of seeing rank/ file here while the flock is told to stay away. TELL THEM TO COME HERE.
Do you understand what I'm saying???? Anyone? Besides johnny?
Respectfully, sKally
-
sf
I meant to add that if you took it personally, then that's what YOU took, from MY OPINIONS.
I could understand your anger here if I had addressed the entire post to you.
It's interesting though that you are the only ex rank/ file that posted that you took it, personally.
At least you took it. When you lay on your pillow tonight, perhaps you can take it a bit deeper.
Respectfully, sKally
-
AuldSoul
Skally,
If I was an ex elder your criticism might have been fair, but I wasn't. Ass. You've proved my point, you don't know me, or most other posters well enough to tell anyone what they SHOULD do.
You say you're tired of seeing rank/file here while the flock is told to stay away? The rank/file IS the flock. Ass.
SF: I won't be patronized.
Or reasonable. Or civil. Or quite a lot of other things you apparently won't be. Ass.
SF: Honestly, I only skimmed your post.
I respected you more than that. Ass. I went over yours thoroughly before responding, so as not to make an ass of myself, publicly.
SF: Do you understand what I'm saying?
I understand what you said in your first post. I wasn't responding to your second post when I replied. You hadn't said what you wrote here, yet. You might have thought it, but I can't read your mind.
SF: It's not that hard to leave if YOU SHARE THE TRUTH WITH THE FLOCK YOU CARE ABOUT...BEFORE YOU EXIT YOURSELF.
This is pure, unadulterated, all-natural horse-made fertilizer. There is no easy way to leave, but sometimes, if people are very careful and very lucky, they get to leave with some things they care deeply about. Your approach wuold not free the flocks, it would terrify them. Ass.
You stand by what you wrote? I can just see you chest puffed out as you write that. And you replied to my response without even reading it? OF COURSE you stand by what you wrote. WHY wouldn't you. You didn't consider ANYTHING else, so what could POSSIBLY effect any change in your viewpoint? Ass.
SF: I meant to add that if you took it personally, then that's what YOU took, from MY OPINIONS.
According to the WTS, what they publish are opinions, too. Does that excuse them for making statements about what people should do, in your world, Skally? I took personal offense to your instructive tone, as though you are the one with the only correct way to leave the organization. Your vented opinions were directed toward people who are SEARCHING for an exit that will leave them with some fragments of their lives. Would you rather they shred their lives completely? Ass.
SF: When you lay on your pillow tonight, perhaps you can take it a bit deeper.
What is there for me to take deeper? You were mostly venting at ex-elders and I never was one. You didn't pick up on that because you're being an ass.
AuldSoul
-
Warlock
Dozy,
You still function as an elder and don't believe all of it?
Warlock
-
AuldSoul
Oh, I meant to add: I don't ever add "Respectfully" as a close unless I am sure I mean it. To do otherwise would mark me as an ass.
-
ESTEE
Sorry,
I came on the scene kind of late. I don't read the forum that often, as I've moved on with my life significantly. However, thankfully this thread caught my attention!
dozy wrote:
A brother gave the baptism talk recently at an assembly who I know feels similar to myself. . . . He deviated from the outline, stressing that this was the most difficult part of being a witness as the Org was run by imperfect men and had made many mistakes. . . . Nevertheless , we didn't dedicate ourselves to a religious corporation - ultimately we were dedicated to God and individually accountable to him , regardless of the actions of others , including those in authority. . .
If one is dedicated to God and individually accountable to God, does that not make the organization redundant? My experience since leaving the organization is that there are many beautiful souls that may or may not belong to any religious organization. I believe spiritual practice is more important than whether one belongs to a religious organization, especially one that does not serve our purpose for being. When I meet these beautiful souls, and connect with them, I desire to stay in touch with them, and associate with them whenever possible. Since they are like-minded and interested in spiritual lessons, they become my friends. It feels much healthier than to belong to a disjointed organization of frightened people praying for their "paradise" which keeps being postponed generation after generation.
As I grow and progress spiritually, past friends fall by the wayside, if they don't grow. That is how I view the JWs now. I feel that while I embraced a fear-based system of belief, it served my purpose and supported where I was at. But now that I've outgrown that system of belief, I have also outgrown the jws. My marriage disentegrated for the same reason. My ex chose to stay stuck in the '60s, and I chose to grow. That principle of growth applies in religion, too. Interestingly, FEAR is what keeps people or organizations stuck and unable to grow.
When I was disfellowshipped, it was a big shock to me, I had been born and raised as a jw and knew no other way to live, and knew no other system of belief, except by FEAR. Having been disfellowshipped for seven years now, I have done a lot of growth work. I am no longer shocked by the JCs decision. I thank the elders because they gave me the "kick in the pants" to get on with my life, and not be stuck in a religion of fear which did not serve my highest and best purpose. Nothing the jws have is of any interest to me any longer. Leaving the religion was inevitable because I was growing and the religion was stuck in FEAR.
I realize there are a lot of sincere people in the JWs, but FEAR-based teachings that predominate their system keep these members blocked. And as long as the members do not engage in some "outside" interests, but stay so close to the organization members, work with them, play with them, commit to mindless meetings five times a week, there is no chance for growth or change. Thankfully, I got involved with dance lessons. That gave me the opportunity to let go of the fear-based thinking and give myself an opportunity to feel joy. Dance is a Soul thing with me. The elders attempted to stop me from dancing, but my soul just kept right on dancing. I tried to stop---just to please the elders---but I could not stop. Dancing was just the thing I needed to find new friends, a new support system, and move on with my life and be true to my Self, instead of an organization that no longer served my highest purpose.
True, dance became the stepping stone to leave. For other people it may be something else. Since that time I was able to leave the fear-based teachings, embrace a system of belief that gave me permission to heal my heart and my soul. My journey is not over yet, maybe I will just keep growing. But if my soul is happy, then no human can break my Spirit. I read somewhere earlier in this thread about how the jws try to break the spirit of ones leaving the organizaiton. I truly believe the elders do attempt to break our spirit, that was my experience, too. But if we follow our soul's purpose, we never have to let them break us. We have been given free will and we can also choose to exercise it in a way that is most beneficialfor us in fulfilling our life purpose of growth. Leaving or letting the elders disfellowship us is actually a healthy way of saying "No, you will not break my Spirit. I will not let you."
Doubting Bro wrote:
I need to resign my position and will do so as soon as I can figure out how to get my wife out. I plan on using some of the resources on this board to accomplish that goal. Thanks to all who have posted. You are making a difference.
Welcome to the board, DoubtingBro!
My advice is to get involved with something outside the organization that interests you---that you (and your wife) are passionate about. Very soon you will find your way. Keep open to Spirit and know that just because you leave the organization does not mean that God has abandoned you, like the elders would have liked me to believe. When I found out I was disfellowshipped (2 weeks after my mom died), the first thing I did was pray. I felt such a strong connection to Spirit that I just knew I was going to be okay, although I did not know how things would all turn out. Seven years later, I am just so thankful that I let myself leave, even though I needed the initial "push" out the door. Just know from experience that a person can be healthy and well outside the organization. It would be nice if your wife follows suit. Bless you both on your journey.
Quandary wrote:
Your story sounds a lot like mine. I too am still in, (elder, BS overseer) going through the motions strictly for family reasons.
Welcome to the board, Quandary. This is a wonderful thread that appears to be helping doubting elders to reach out. I am truly proud of you both, Quandary and Doubting Bro!!! This reaching out is your first step to health, I believe. It is what I have been thinking since I left: that many more will leave because it simply does not serve our purpose any longer. It is an organization we have outgrown---because we choose to grow!
MrsMcDuckett wrote:
Don't apologize for writing it, you don't know who else you could be helping. This is a sounding board. You can post and reflect, and start the healing process.
Right on!
Zarco wrote:
I also appreciate the disagreement with my position to stay within the organization. It has many flaws, but it also has some of the finest people I have ever met. In our congregation of about 100 people, I have some leverage to affect people for good.
No need to apologize for staying in the organization. Just know that if you are meant to leave, your higher self will find the appropriate time and way to exit in a manner that is safe for your soul. Know, too, that since leaving I have met a lot of wonderful fine people on the outside. These fine people are every where and anywhere. Perhaps you still believe these kinds of people are found only in the JWs. Not surprising: it's what we were taught.
Opr83 wrote:
I'm an ex-elder, stepping away some years ago. Still "active" in the congregation.
Welcome to the forum!
This is a most remarkable thread. I just can't stop reading each and every post. I believe at some point in our lives, our Soul pushes us to do what we came to this earth to do. At some point we can no longer stay stuck and not do anything except stay in a "comfort" zone. At some point our Soul makes us squirm from inactivity in that so-called zone and we must move ourselves out of that stuck place to be our authentic Self!
I always remember an illustration given at a circuit convention: namely that we can't clean an organization that is polluted. It is just like taking a bar of soap into the pig pen to clean the pig. We will get ourselves dirty and it will annoy the pig. If an organization we are involved in is polluted, then we are free to leave. We can't expect ourselves to fix all the things wrong with it. Indeed, leave it to God. But be true to yourself and find your way to safety--outside the "pig pen."
Auld Soul wrote:
I just don't understand. My dad is in my front yard right now. My wife just got home. My dad is no doubt expressing to her, yet again, how much they miss me. I am not thirty feet away from him and he knows I would welcome his company, but the same organization places upon him the burden of cutting me out of his life and discarding me, like a malignant cancer. He served on his first Judicial Committee when he was 17 years old. Why does he carry this Pharisaical burden?
Argh! Stories like this break my heart. *hug* My children shun me, maybe that is why. It is part of the jw punishing belief system which I can no longer embrace. I trust that because I taught my children everything they know, that one day they will walk away from those beliefs, as I have. I set that example, too.*pats self on back--gives self gold star*
Further:
The organization compares its practice of shunning to the Israelite sentence of stoning. The effect from the standpoint of the congregation is similar. Some who have become shunned have committed suicide, demonstrating that the effect to the punished is worse, in some cases, than even death.
But the comparison is unfair for one simple reason: Stoning was a sentence resultant of a public trial witnessed by anyone who cared to witness it, Jew, proselyte, alien resident, or Gentile visitor. Jehovah's Witnesses commit horrible acts of injustice that even the Sanhedrin of Jesus' day did not commit. True, they had a nighttime trial. But it was still public. Anyone could witness the entire proceedings. We have minutes of what transpired because it was public. Where in the Bible could anyone look to get the idea that secret trials and public sentencing is something Jehovah approved? All phases, including deliberation, were public. What good work is ever made secret? So, why the secrecy? I want any JW elder to PLEASE explain this to me. Without intending any disrespect to any posters here, in my opinion any elder who serves on a Judicial Committee supports this heinous practice, gives the nod to it, and condones it.
I sure appreciate your insightful comments about the jw disfellowshipping practice here, Auld Soul. This is the best thread I have read in a long time---Something I can really sink my teeth into! Wonderful! I believe members endorsing disfellowshipping cases without question is purely a case of misplaced trust. From birth we are taught to trust the organization implicityly. Yet, the organization blurs the line between God and Itself, as if they are one and the same. Members take what they hear from the platform as being "gospel." That can't be healthy.
Being disfellowshipped or disassociated does not change who we are. We are still the same soul inside, but allowing that treatment means its time for us to grow and move on. A lot of people who give into the fear of being disfellowshipped come back, then find themselves in trouble again. They get disfellowshipped again! Perhaps it is a case of the soul just not letting them stay stuck in an organization they have outgrown.
Well, I gotta stop and take a break from reading. I'll catch up again later.
Love and light,
ESTEE