As far as I knew they never changed their policy but updated it with new tech. They still do not condone "whole blood" transfusions and since they didn't have only "parts" of it to chose from back then why would they take responsibility for it now? They will justify themselves.
Say You're a Bethelite & Monitoring JWD - How Would You Feel About THESE??
by Seeker4 356 Replies latest jw friends
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JWdaughter
Dozy(responses follow the asterisks), you wrote:
If a large, successful, and intensive preaching campaign is what proves God's spirit is with a religion, the Evangelicals have it nailed down tightly. They are everywhere JWs are, and well beyond. *** Are they? Other than their bizarre TV evangelising efforts filled with demands for money and wild emotional sing-songs and appeals which immediately put off any right minded person , I've never , ever , ever had any contact whatsoever by them (other than when I call on them in the ministry). And I live in an area popular with evangelicals who regularly establish new churches when they fall out with each other. There is a man who shouts at hapless passerbys in the street occasionally , before the police move him on. Does that count as "an intensive preaching campaign?"
Shelly says: I have been witnessed to extensively in a casual way by many Christians when I was a JW. Many took personal evangelism to heart and while it was not a 'campaign' I have since found that christian churches DO encourage personal witnessing, and saw a lot of church growth from it.
Dozy says: Even the Mormons outdo JWs. By a lot. "But," JWs respond, "they teach things that aren't true, though!" **** In fairness , the Mormons have some fairly bizarre beliefs and would admit that they have relegated the bible to second place behind the book of Mormon (which is demonstrably false) - it contains large swathes of the book of Isaiah from the KJV including translation errors despite supposedly being written hundreds of years previously. The preaching is limited to young evangelists on a 2 year tour of duty - the average r & f Mormon doesn't preach or even have much knowledge of their beliefs.
Shelly says: I think that many JW beliefs are demonstrably false and quite bizarre. That their missionaries are generally young men isn't any less a preaching work. They feel they are called to teach and they do. My personal knowledge of LDS people is that they teach and believe that 'every member is a missionary' and many regularly share their faith. I have been witnessed to by LDS people who are not missionaries, and my first experience with LDS people was a bunch of JR/SR high school students who were not ashamed to say what they believed and who witnessed to others.
Dosy said: If a successful worldwide preaching work IS THE MARK, then JWs are beat out by several other religions. *** Such as?
Shelly says: Billy Graham, after 50+ years of preaching and being retired reaches more people during one televised crusade than I bet the WT does in a year with everyone turning in FS slips. The LDS church is growing, the evangelicals, for all that it is said they don't have ORGANIZED preaching, are growing by leaps and bounds. WWashington is the most unchurched place in the nation and we can't go two blocks without running into a church, big, medium, small and convention sized.
Dosy says: If "love among yourselves" is the mark, JWs finish poorly among the religions I have seen. *** What other religious order refuses to go to war and kill fellow members in other countries?
Shelly says: Several pacifist religions are out there! Quakers, Mennonites, and if not organizationally, there are many individual people who are conscientious objectors for faith reasons.
Dosy says: ****If reliance on the teachings of men who proclaimed themselves to be chosen by God is the mark, JWs have no peers and must be the true religion. The above is why some (including my friend previously mentioned) feel that despite all their faults , there is some merit in JWism , and why they point to the preaching work as some support for their religion. I make no claim to be an apologist - I have tremendous doubts myself. However , I do not share Auldsoul's view that Jehovah's witnesses (or more specifically their leadership) are corrupt or evil - I take the view that they are simply sincere , honest men who try hard to discern principles and prophecies from scripture but who are misguided when they claim that they inhabit the sole channel of direction and holy spiri and who have "gone beyond what is written" in imposing further laws on their flock.
Shelly says: That is quite a pass to give a group of men. Being misguided???? You can't claim the HS is driving it when it is organizational INTERESTS that push and pull their doctrine along. If I were to fast and pray and study for a year and presume to tell you to do something I thought was best, based on MY claim that God is speaking to me, would you accept wat I tell you to do because you think I am sincere? If you know I am sincerely wrong-why play around at respecting my nutso beliefs? Do that enough and you WILL be drinking koolaid(not you, people who let them get away with their sincerely wrong business for decades) Where does it end? How can one justify the pain and hurt they cause? How can one justify the lives lost, families destroyed, futures ruined? Once they go 'beyond' and impose further unscriptural rules on their flock they are beyond what is acceptable. I don't think any church or religion has it all right. I don't care about dogma or doctrine or any of that. I believe in God. And I know God doesn't want us harming one another, destroying lives on whims and making issues out of non-issues (blood transfusions, ex). Love God, love one another, take care of widows and orphans. If one can't do that, than one should get out of the religion business.
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zarco
Willyloman,
The problem is, not one dub in 1,000 knows what the hell the WTS' current position is on blood. The vast majority, when facing surgery and after the new rules are explained to them by their friendly, local HLC member, will gladly go along with the more liberal allowances. But a lot of dubs still think "you can't take blood, period" and that's the hill they are willing to die on.
All know now. The Kingdom Ministry explains clearly that all fractions are allowed, even hemoglobin - imagine that. Platelet gels are also allowed for wound healing although not stated in the KM
However, the fact that the blood issue has been allowed to die a quiet death with no attending publicity does not exonerate the WTS from bloodguilt. They knew this was quackery but they defended it while at the same time feverishly working behind the scenes to create one exception after another until the original policy was unrecognizable.
Whether bloodguilt is allocated to the FDS I do not know. But certainly many died by their loyalty to what they thought was right. A God who hates injustice will correct matters.
Zarco is undergoing a crisis of conscience here, in part because he is forced to support or at least explain away doctrines and teachings he knows are unconscionable.
No crisis of conscience here. As I stated before I have not disfellowshipped anyone. I strive to help all whom I come in contact with and to live by time tested principles. Are you still an Australian after the horrible atrocities against the aborigines? Or an American after violations of moral law?
Zarco -
zarco
Gill, no worries regarding your point, I did not stop posting because of an offense taken to your comments. It bothered me that others would/could be punished for posting on such a site and that I am not. The injustice of such a situation bugged me. Freedom is the search for truth without retribution. I am not so sure that you have it, I am not so sure that I have it either, maybe we will find it together. But being against something is not the answer, being for something at least is a common place to start. zarco
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Quandry
Zarco
Some have posted on here recently that it seems that the WTS is adopting a "don't ask, don't tell" attitude towards those who take transfusions of whole blood. Do you think that this is the way they are leaning? Do you think that it will no longer warrant a JC type offense?
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zarco
Quandry,
If you can get a November KM the insert discusses blood fractions. A direct quote " Likewise, no one should criticize another Christain's decisions. In these matters each one will carry his own load". The decisions pertain to the choices regarding which fractions a JW may take. So yes it will become a conscience matter or as you state a "dont ask dont tell policy".
That said - it is really hard to grapple with the many thousands who died due to their adherance to past policy. I hope and pray that if their exists the God whom I believe exists that he will make such matter right.... more than right
zarco
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AuldSoul
zarco,
I am confident that God is capable of dealing with any false religion in a suitable way, and capable of making up for any wrongs done by the policies and practices of all false religions.
I am comforted by Paul's speech on Mars Hill where he reassured that God isn't far off from each one of us. I have a tough time believing he meant that God is just the other side of a human organization from each one of us.
zarco: But being against something is not the answer, being for something at least is a common place to start.
I understand your intent, but isn't it possible to be both for something good, helpful, and healthy and opposed to things that are bad, retarding, and damaging? I have a difficult time getting Jesus positive message from Matthew 23, for instance. He was plainly opposed to the oppressive bureaucracy of the Pharisees that stood between the people and God.
I will continue to follow in his footsteps to the best of my ability, as I trust you will do to the best of yours. I have no quarrel with you for your choices, but I do hope you know your choice is not the only right one.
Respectfully,
AuldSoul -
zarco
Auld Soul,
You said "I understand your intent, but isn't it possible to be both for something good, helpful, and healthy and opposed to things that are bad, retarding, and damaging? I have a difficult time getting Jesus positive message from Matthew 23, for instance. He was plainly opposed to the oppressive bureaucracy of the Pharisees that stood between the people and God".
Thanks for your clarification. Yes one can be opposed to something. But first one must know what core principles one stands for. After that any opposition to such principles can be opposed. I agree with your point – thanks.
You said, "I will continue to follow in his footsteps to the best of my ability, as I trust you will do to the best of yours. I have no quarrel with you for your choices, but I do hope you know your choice is not the only right one".
I agree with the sentiments expressed in your closing. I do know that my choice may not be the right one – that is why I am here.
Zarco -
AuldSoul
zarco: Freedom is the search for truth without retribution.
I agree, freedom would have to include searching for truth without retribution. I didn't have that freedom. I have suffered retribution for seeking truth.
But I think freedom is more than that. Freedom would have to include helping others search for truth without fear of retribution or experiencing retribution, as well, would it not? Freedom would also be known by great freeness of speech, would it not?
What retribution I have suffered I cannot possibly suffer again, unless I first subject myself again to that which initially sought to restrain my freeness of speech. I can truly compare, having had experiential knowledge of both circumstances, and state with certainty: I now have great freeness of speech, I now have freedom to seek truth; I did not previously have great freeness of speech and did not have feedom to seek truth.
If someone hides truth I might still be unable to find it. But I am free to seek it, nonetheless, wherever my search might take me. Do you, then, stand for freedom and stand opposed to that which limits freedom?
Respectfully,
AuldSoul -
AuldSoul
Honestly, if I were scanning this site as a JW, I would be shocked that so many elders, ex-elders, and ex-Bethelites post here.
Respectfully,
AuldSoul