Ray Franz CoC, was he in denial? Just asking.

by Wasanelder Once 42 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Wasanelder Once

  I was reading a little CoC last night where Ray F. disusses the witch hunt at Bethel that resulted in all the oustings. As I read the doctrines that he questioned, (not judging him right or wrong), I noticed that he was questioning some of the fundamental beliefs of the WT. ie: Gov. Body = no authority, Christ mediator for all, all are God's sons by spirit, among others. Though its obvious that the Gov. Body went after him with the goal of kicking him to the curb, what else could he expect? If one holds to other doctrine they would have to assume that his mind was made up, especially when he wouldn't initial his approval for articles. It seems that if his goal was to stay in the club with impunity he should have just kept his mouth shut and moved out of Bethel without making an issue. He forced thier hand simply by acting on his own conscience, which is admirable. (Really though, it sounds as if he were going to just continue pretending things would be ok in the org and ride it out. He didn't stand up and say, hey this is all wrong.) He states that he wanted to see the brothers try to readjust him in a spirit of mildness and help him understand what the scriptures actually say. We all know that once you've seen the truth you are an apostate by WT terms. You don't have to utter a word to anyone in an effort to persuade them, just holding to another view and letting the tongue slip is a death sentence. Ray couldn't fade, he was too bright a star to just drift off. So, was he in denial about what to expect from the old boys? He writes as if he were honestly surprised by their reactions. It's a little hard to believe that after all those years in the Org and 9 years on the Gov. Body that he hadn't see the bullcrap before. It reads as if its written for non-witnesses who are ignorant of the truth about the truth and accept things at face value. What do you think?

  It's still a very important and telling book.

  W.Once

  (fixed sp)
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  WTFBBQPWNT

  Franz was out for scholarly glory in Brooklyn, and would have never resigned from the GB on his own. He enjoyed being a god in the organization far too much to do that.

  To understand CoC, you have to get into the mind of the author. He wasn't just trying to list the reasons why the average JW should reconsider being in the religion. He was trying to rally people to his cause. For instance, have you ever known somebody that has a drinking problem? They don't seek to make friends or hang out with non-drinkers. People like that surround themselves with other drinkers so they will feel better about the decisions they have made in their life.

  The mindless masses who were in the organization for the sole purpose of being delivered from this "wicked system" in 1975 were a perfect audience for Franz. So the more spin he could put on things like closed-door GB meetings, dissention in Bethel, or whatever else that clouds the mind with doubt...those are all tools Franz used to his advantage.
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  dido

  I think he hung on for too long and should have got out a lot earlier, as it was quite a few years from the beginning of his doubts up to when he left bethel, and was d/f, and even then he fought against d/fellowshipping. It wasn`t just their interpretation of the scriptures he didn`t agree with, their was a lot more he didn`t go along with, his uncle was one of them. I think that he could have got out a lot sooner, and probably helped a lot of people see the society for what it was, even saving some lives by doing so. Saying this, reading his book helped me so much, giving me insight into the workings of the gb etc., so i appreciate that .
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  done4good

  I dunno, W.Once. What I do know is that the GB, (as individual members), do hold to individual ideas. If those ideas never get voted in, that does not necessairly mean that they change their minds as individuals. I stated here before, that I knew Dan Sydlik somewhat, and I can say FOR SURE, that he had his own ideas about some/many things. The rest of the GB are not going to "go after" a member for holding those ideas, so as long the opposing idea is kept a "personal" view. I didn't get the impression that Ray was particularly open about his views, outside of a small circle, perhaps, so maybe he was truly shocked by the reaction he received by the rest of the GB.

  j
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  minimus

  Birdbrain, what has been Franz' "cause"??? Seems to me that the GB have a "cause" not Ray Franz. You seem to have a "cause" too. To try to show that the Watchtower is wonderful. You are truly in a cult. At least Franz and the rest of us can see the obvious! Hey, can you explain to me the rationale on the JW blood fractions ideas using "God's Word" only????
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  drew sagan

  those are all tools Franz used to his advantage.

  
  
  With what as the final goal? To take people away from the WTS because they had hurt him personally and had taken away his power?
  
  Don't get me wrong, a number of us have wondered about Ray and some of his actions (like if he every would have left the Body on his own). I tend to think about what it would have been like if I was in that situation. There are so many of us who can attest to the fact that even though we thought there where problems in the org, it was still Gods organization and we had to follow along with it. Even in CoC he talks about going to meetings in Georgia and trying to make the best of things.
  
  For the most part I think Franz was just as naive as many of the other members who where on the body or are on it now. They think they are really leading Gods organization. But Franz finally woke up, mabye a little later than he needed to but thats life. He has written two good books and I highly reccommend them. His expierance helps the ex-jw cause and gives exposure to a system that functions behind closed doors.
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  greendawn

  So when Franz realised that the org was not right he reacted even though he knew he was going to get expelled as an apostate. What he revealed totally demolishes the myth of the divine appointment of the JW leaders. He could have kept quiet and remain in his position.
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  WTFBBQPWNT

  Birdbrain, what has been Franz' "cause"??? Seems to me that the GB have a "cause" not Ray Franz. You seem to have a "cause" too. To try to show that the Watchtower is wonderful. You are truly in a cult. At least Franz and the rest of us can see the obvious! Hey, can you explain to me the rationale on the JW blood fractions ideas using "God's Word" only????

  You're clueless. I'm not even one of Jehovah's Witnesses. But I love how people get pissed when an opinion about Franz is shared.

  His "cause" was to collect minions that would satisfy that craving for power that he could no longer have quenched by being on the GB.

  About the blood fractions, it's not from "God's Word". Just more legalistic garbage to help the GB keep that grip tight.
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  done4good

  His "cause" was to collect minions that would satisfy that craving for power that he could no longer have quenched by being on the GB.

  You know, I'm not one to like to rally around someone who writes a book or two, but my PERSONAL dealing with Ray Franz, (via email, letters etc), confirms he is an upstanding guy. Your "opinon" on Franz is utterly false.

  Besides, why don't you get a handle I can actually remember when I go to type a reply.

  j
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  slimboyfat

  Raymond Franz was an honourable man.

  Slim