by Wasanelder Once 42 Replies latest watchtower bible
OK enough with the name calling
If I was a governing body member whose job it is to research and provide "new light" and in doing my job come to some conclusions that means we are teaching something different, then I would expect that the other gb members would at least consider the possibility that I had discovered "new light"
Personally I think he would have been stunned at their reaction. if it was me I know I would have been stunned.
What many forget is that all of us who had our little flashes of doubt while thinking at the same time that we had the "Truth" were in denial, that is why this state is called cognitive dissonance because if you weren't in some kind of denial you would have cognitive harmony.
As to the charge that Ray Franz wanted power I'd say it is completely false as I believe Fred Franz was vey early on grooming his nephew for a greater leadership role and since Fred was already ancient as hell when Ray was added to the GB then only an honest man or a fool could not see that in just a few years he (Ray) could have accepted the mantal as the new Watchtower Guru/Oracle when Fred died. The void left by Fred's death is still felt today and Ray had the intellegence and crediability to fill that void if that is what he had wanted to do. Because Ray's conscience was bothering him he was incapable of plotting this otherwise very obvious move. He wasn't even enough of a schemer to hold out for reform until he was in a better power position. He got in trouble because he felt he had to honestly discuss his doubts with others and because he could not in good conscience approve of certain GB protocals. These are hardly the actions of a power hungry plotter.
What is also forgotten or unknown to younger JWs is that there were tremendious changes bubbling over in the late 1960's and 70's in the Organization and no one knew just how it would all shake out. In this power-confused environment where Fred kept undermining his own policy changes and trying to readjust to his own interpretations I think Ray was fooled into believing for a while that organizational reform was possible from the inside, had Knorr lived a few more years it is possible that things would have turned out differently as Knorr was the pragmatic balance to Fred Franz's manic and misguided talents as a Bible interpretor. After Knorr's death it was inevitable that Fred's ego and his paranoia about any percieved disloyalty to what were essentially his ideas and traditions would take center stage much to the detriment of any would-be reformers.
Really. The "proof" that he wasn't out for power is the fact that he had not tried to gain power for himself after he left. With the publication of his two books there are many people who say the books have helped them immensely. But he has not sought out a following. In fact he does what he can to prevent a following. He hasn't gone off and started some new religion as the WTS would like people to believe. He leads a quiet life trying to help those who need it.
Seems to me that he is an honorable man who sought real truth and was shocked at the response he got from the GB
It is very sad to see that some xJWs have sunk to feeding on their own. What has Ray Franz done to deserve this?
I'm glad he does not come here.
It is very sad to see that some xJWs have sunk to feeding on their own. What has Ray Franz done to deserve this?
The owl claims to never have been a JW before. If that is true, it cannot possibly be an xJW.
I cannot think of any ex-JW who would harbor such unrestrained malice towards Raymond Franz and his books. I cannot imagine why any ex-JW would.
INQ
" The owl claims to never have been a JW before. If that is true, it cannot possibly be an xJW.
I cannot think of any ex-JW who would harbor such unrestrained malice towards Raymond Franz and his books. I cannot imagine why any ex-JW would."
This thread was started by "wasanelder once" I believe that speaks for itself.
Ray Franz is just a man. He's not above making mistakes or using bad judgement.
Some may have given him hero status, but he's just a man sharing his experiences so people can see another side to the story of what happens in WT land.
For someone as high up as he was, it must have taken a lot of intestinal fortitude to say and do the things that he did, even while still inside the inner circle. It's easy to sit from where we are and say, "he could have done this or he should have done that", but the fact is most non-JWs will look at us and say the same things about us and what we went through as JWs.
Being a JW is not easy, and it's even harder to try to leave them. Ray Franz writing a book about his experiences and thoughts can only help any who feel the need to try to escape the religion. He's not looking for "minions" or "followers". He needed money though. That's why he published the book instead of giving it away. Years of living under WT life left him with very little means of making a living once he was outed. Can't grudge him making a few bucks on the sale of his book. And if anyone is serious about learning what an insider has to say about being in the GB, they wouldn't balk at paying the price of a book to learn something.
I'm thankful for his willingness to publish his book(s), although I didn't read his second one, as I no longer consider myself a Christian any more than I consider myself a JW. I respect him and his courage but at the same time, I don't put him on a pedestal to be revered or worshipped. I'm afraid that some ex-JWs have gone a little too far in that direction...probably to his embarrasement.
By way of clarification, because some appear to be thick-headed, my point in posting this topic was not to bash Ray Franz. In my opinion he was wrongly treated as were many others on this board. He is just a bigger fish. His book has been fascinating reading. I was not trying to accuse him of lying or misrepresnting himself in any way. I just had a hard time reading it and seeing him as being so naive as to think he would be treated fairly. That doesn't mean he was a liar, it just means, perhaps his style of writing is, to some degree, with a goal of presenting himself as sympathetic a character as possible. Let's face it, its only human to save face. I've stated before that preaching doctrine doesn't appeal t me any more. I have no interest in bashing his views. I applaud his book and the good its doing in exposing the Falsehood of the Truth. The fact that I was an elder only made me privy to the privy that the organization is sooner than others who are still under the "concept" of an "Organization" that Ray writes of. That is probably his most salient point in the whole of his book. Its not about an "Organization" of people earthwide etc., its those old farts in Brooklyn and that's it. All the cloak and dagger crap of the judicial committees is hilarious. It happens on the local level too. Unbelievable! All the drama, Ray was right to just drop the appeal, its always a sham. He basically admits that its impossible to get justice from the GB.
Bravo Ray Franz. He's not a saint, he's just a regular guy and that's why the Gov. Body didn't like him.
Don't misunderstand me please, I'd have him to tea.
Give me cretdit for having "BEEN" and for "NO LONGER BEEING" an elder any longer.
W.Once
I had the impression that it was only after the purge occured in the early 80s that the issue of apostacy as we know it today really came into force. All the watchtower articles start popping up then, making it into a big issue. By comparison, the period before this, the late 1970s was much more easy going and laxed in regard to quiestioning beliefs. Perhaps it is because Franz's thoughts are being seen in retrospect, that they are percieved as naive. They ought to be looked at in context.
I have to agree with Spider. We are looking back to the (more or less) beginnings
of a different attitude at Bethel among the GB. Sure, in the past, there were the
hostile take-over from Rutherford, and those days during prohibition that he
smuggled booze in, but after that things settled down. Incredible growth was the
focus up thru 1975. Then 1975 became the main issue to discuss up until Ray left.
So he was right at the beginning of blaming those with doubts for their own lack of
faith. He probably expected the GB to really listen to him. It seems that his exit
was fairly easy from the Body, itself (although there was already a witch-hunt), so
he was surprised that they could not let it go at that.
I was typing the above statement without slowing down
to think. Looking back, IMO, he was naive. He should
have seen it coming from the 1975 cover-up or from
the disfellowshippings taking place during his leave of
absence.
