Christians and dubs/treated same here (page 2)

Tina

hi seigswife,
What you may not be aware of is that many upon leaving the WTS did a serious search to find god. And found the whole premise of christianity wanting. It's naive to think all who left the WTS are not christians because of them. Some don't believe in god simply because they found no evidence to believe in such. Especially the war mongering,genocidal god of the bible. regards,T

Carl Sagan on balancing openness to new ideas with skeptical scrutiny..."if you are open to the point of gullibility and have not an ounce of skeptical sense-you cannot distinguish useful ideas from worthless ones."

gumby

Sixofnine: "It has no supporting evidence"
How can you sat that. It has much support from archeology, and historians that weren't even christian. All the good in it isn't mentioned by those who no longer believe. Only.....God is mean. He can demand devotion and act on it if it isn't obeyed if he is God can't he?

RedhorseWoman

As Waiting brought out, we have all been told repeatedly what is "correct" for us. We have been told what to wear, what to read, what type of education to get, how we should spend our leisure time......ad nauseum.

There is no bias here against Christians. There is simply a refusal to be told what is best for us. We've earned the right to be choosy.

dungbeetle

I agree with siegswife..I am in conflict with JW's because I am trying to be a Christian.

As far as why some people get ticked at something particular they read/see...I believe some people are quarelsome and argumentative and irritable within their character structure. They may have reasons for this...nevertheless the fault is not in the post, or in its contents.

For myself, I get ticked at something I consider an outright lie.

And I don't like psychological terrorism, which some Christians use when they say the.. "you are going to die unless..." cult-induced drivel. Almost every atheist I ever met/talked to/ has agreed with this statement...any God if there is one, that is capable of creating this universe and all the things in it, most likely can read a mind and a heart and doesn't need someone crusading death and destruction on his behalf.

On those occasions when 'atheists' and 'Christians' can agree on something, I think it's worth listening to.

Just a thought.

dungbeetle...cleaning up the crap.

Pathofthorns

I think most here gave Christianity a fair shot. Many here remain Christians and that choice is respected. Many of us AFTER having personally examined Christianity found it to be flawed.

The fact is that EVERY SINGLE PERSON here that is not a Christian has PERSONALLY EXAMINED Christianity and made a decision. Attempts to 'preach' to or 'save' such ones amounts to a disrespect of our personal decisions and the experiences we have been through.

Feel free to discuss Christian issues, feel free to be a Christian. But do not try to preach to us. You WILL meet with resistance.

Do not run from the debates, the questions etc raised regarding Christianity and the Bible. Defend your viewpoint based on solid FACTS. You just might get a better idea why many have come to the conclusions they have.

Path

siegswife

(((Wouldn't you say that at best, the messege of the Bible is extreme? Extremely hard to believe? I mean, it has no supporting evidence. You can understand, given that, why people who no longer believe it to be from God, would see those who do as "duped"? Given the evils perpetrated on the world by people who got their ideas about God from that book, can you see why it is of concern to the unbeliever? Said evils being constant and unrelenting for thousands of years. Frankly, we are tired of peoples morality coming from a book. A mean spirited book at that.)))

LOL If I thought that I wouldn't believe it, would I? Where is your evidence that God doesn't exist? I can look around me and see that Someone had to create what exists. Of course I understand that someone who doesn't believe that it is from God would believe that. Surely you can see that someone who DOES believe it would think that those of you who don't are being duped too, can't you? I don't believe that the people who perpetrate evil are truly trying to live by what is in that book. They twist its meaning for their own ends. I also understand why you would be concerned about those people, I'm concerned about them too. Those who morality is in conflict with the love that Christ displayed lack morals. Can you call immorality morality? I don't know why you call it a meanspirited book, but I have to ask: Is the spirit of intolerance that you display GOOD spirited? Where is the superiority in your way of thinking? If there is none, why are you complaining?

rem

Siegswife,

You make me laugh. You talk a lot of bluster, but when it comes down to presenting and listening to facts you run with your tail between your legs. You are not interested in facts or truth. You are only interested in defending the religion your mommy taught you. You have admitted on another tread that you are not interested in looking at pesky facts:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=12052&page=2&site=3

If you want to seriously discuss this then bring it on! Bring on your facts. I'd love to see them. I think you'll find that the atheists on this board have dug down deep - a lot deeper than you have and know the weaknesses in your arguments and your lack of facts. Face it - atheists have facts and evidence. You do not - you only have faith. If that's how you want to believe, that is fine and I can respect that. But please don't insult our intelligence by claiming that your belief is based on evidence because it isn't. If you think it is then you clearly have not done the research and you are way out of your league. Show us your facts, please.

rem

"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so."
..........Bertrand Russell

siegswife

You seem to think you know an awful lot about me without even knowing me. My mommy taught me to believe in astrology. I'm not advocating that am I? What makes you think that I should have to PROVE anything to YOU? LOL Why would you want me to since you are obviously all knowing? ROFL

siegswife

(((You have admitted on another tread that you are not interested in looking at pesky facts)))

ROFL Why should it concern YOU what I CHOSE? I'm not searching so I have no need to read another mans version of FACTS. You aren't advocating mind control are you?

SixofNine

Where is your evidence that God doesn't exist? I can look around me and see that Someone had to create what exists.

What does that have to do with the Bible? What evidence do you have that anything in the Bible came from a supernatural source?

[/quote]Where is the superiority in your way of thinking?[/quote]

The superiority comes from asking intelligent, reasonable questions, and if they are not answered reasonably, not just deciding to "believe" anyway. It is a better way, and I highly recommend it. Life haunts those who don't.

Here is a reasonable question, why should anyone believe the Bible is from a supernatural source?

If it is, why is that supernatural source so petty, meanspirited, and wishywashy. Why does he play favourites with races? Why does he need something to die (animal or human) to make up for sin? Why did he not make clear what his words were to man? Why are the words of the Bible unclear and vague on so many things? Why is there controversy as to what should make up the Bible canon? Why is there controversy as to what is Gods name? Why would he kill innocent children for their parents sins, or even just for their parents being the wrong race? Why is there such strong evidence against a worldwide flood? Why can we trace man back much, much further than the Bible's timeline? Why are women said to be subservient to man in the Bible? Why is sex outside of marriage a death penalty offense in some cases, but not others? Why would some of Jah's favourite people get to remain his favourite, even while having many, even hundreds, of wives (read "sexual partners")? Why was John the Baptist baptising? Why are SO many bible stories amazingly similar to older mythology of other peoples? Why did David's baby die as punishment for David's sins? Why would the messege of the Abraham/Isaac sacrifice story be a good example? Why would God play such a cruel practical joke on anyone? Why were Isrealite womens hymens to be checked by the village elders if acused by their husband of being a non-virgin? Why are there conflicting creation and flood accounts within the same book? Why was the first part of the Bible written SO much later than the time period it covers, and by unknown authors?

Inquiring minds (a gift from God, if you believe in God), want to know.

Christians and dubs/treated same here

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