(For Christians) Why Human Organization Is Unnecessary

by AuldSoul 39 Replies latest jw friends

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  lovelylil

  This is so true - organization is unnecesary!

  The original meaning of "church" (ekklesia) was not a term for a building. It simply meant the "body of believers (the people) in Christ".

  No organizational affiliation is needed as Jesus said "where two or three are gathered in my name, I am there". (Matthew 18:20)

  When the Samaritan women asked Jesus where the correct place was to worship God - he responded by saying "the time is coming when you will not worship either here (on the holy mountain) nor in Jerusalem but will worship in "spirit and truth". God is a spirit thus we can worship him anywhere. He is not confined to a building or organization.God is everywhere. (John 4:21-24)

  Paul emphasized this fact by exclaiming to the men of Athens that "God does not dwell in man made temples". And goes on to explain how he is not far off from all of us. (Acts 17:24-28)

  So anytime we have a few together we can worship God, pray to him and rely on his help for understanding his word. Our getting the understanding of scripture is the job of the Holy Spirit and not any man made organization. Lilly
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  Sunspot

  The problem arises when the "organisation" starts to control the people and not the people controlling the "organisation".

  This occurs usually when people allow either one person or a number of persons, to be in charge of the "organisation". These then start to take power upon themselves to run the "organisation". To the exclusion of others who are members of the "organisation".

  The "Organisation" becomes the main object. Being Christian and Christ becomes a side issue.

  What needs to be distinguished is the difference between being 'organized' and belonging to 'An Organization'.

  These thoughts are all interesting. I liked what was being brought out here, but like everything else, upon closer scrutiny, the WTS claims that "you need an organization---OUR organization to find eternal life" all fall apart. NOWHERE does Jesus instruct his followers to "find" any organization, identify it, and join it to have a chance at eternal life (in a New Order as "pictured" in a magazine!!!!.)

  It is understandable a type of "organization" would be needed to an extent, where ones want to "gather together" and as we see, "where two or three are gathered together in my name---there I am"....

  ...but to tyrannically "take over" as the WTS has, and enforce their own doctrines and rules (NOT found in any bible) upon the members (as the WTS has)....then it far surpasses anything the scriptures meant or ever pointed out. The "FOLLOW US OR ELSE" mentality is not Christian nor is it one that needs to be listened to by the fanatical crackpots who support or run the WTS.
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  proplog2

  You can't believe what the Bible says about Holy Spirit anymore than anything else in the Bible. Evolution teaches that organization is intrinsic to life - especially in primates. Our very existence is dependent on organization.

  People have to remember that organizations are just tools.
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  greendawn

  There is no black and white situation here, the key issue is how far do they take organisation? In the dubs they have gone too far given the rigidity with which they try to control their members even demanding monthly reports for the time they spent preaching their gospel. There is a role for humans but most of the direction should be done by the Holy Spirit. And of course the worst part is that people in authority almost always end up abusing the flock.
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  drew sagan

  Our very existence is dependent on organization. People have to remember that organizations are just tools.

  
  
  Quite True. I would add though that what is being discussed here is the teaching that one particular religious authority is essential to salvatin. I think that is more of the question 'Why Human Organization is Unnecessary' and the context being discussed. For one who believes in Jesus Christ then such an emphesis on Human Orgaization as seen in the Wathtower is Unnecessary. This is not to say that religous organization is completely unnecessary, but the emphasis that Watchtower puts upon it is.
  
  This has very little to do with the essential element of organizations in the social framwork of our existance, IMO. We all need each other to progress, live, build, and all of that stuff. Organization is the fabric of our society no doubt and I don't think any of us here think the world would be better off without this sort of existance.
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  Apostate Kate

  Every little church in every little town on every little prairie has a BIG Corporate HQ's somewhere. It's a business. TopHat

  You don't say. How did you arrive at this conclusion?

  TopHat this is simply not true. I have been in several churches that were independant. My husband pastored one and we are working with one now that is completly Independant. He plays keyboards in the band and we help with ..... ORGANIZING, yes that is right. What do we organize? We organize people into charitable work. Providing food, clothing, supplies, making sure the sick are not forgotten, teaching children effectively the true message of the gospel in age appropriate fun ways (my favorite), assisting free drug rehabilitation centers by gathering needed items etc etc etc.. We don't even have a building yet we rent the community center. We are the first church here in this immediate area. The pastor is an educated man and friend of the family that we have known for years. He is not accountable to any headquarters or main church. He is accountable to God and to us. I have also experienced large non denominational churches, denominational churches, and of course a cult. There is NO comparision. It would be like comparing poo with a hot fundge sundae. One really smelled and was a hassle to deal with and leaves you feeling dirty, the other is a pleasure that you enjoy and tend to want more of.
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  Apostate Kate

  The problem arises when the "organisation" starts to control the people and not the people controlling the "organisation".

  That sums it up very well. In most churches they are run by a church board of directors that can keep each minister/pastor in line. (they can be a nightmare to work with when they spend too much time on non spiritual matters)

  In a healthy church, which can be simply the gathering of a few Christians in a home, or thousands in a megachurch, the people should have a say in all things. If something is being taught that is veering from Scripture, they need to be heard and it should be discussed. There should be an atmospere of mutual respect and no pastor or church leaders should be held above anyone else.

  Each member needs to feel free to discuss Scripture and theology. No one should be deciphering Hebrew and Greek texts that veer from what is written and teaching it as fact. Nothing has changed for 2000 years, there is nothing new to discover that has not already been written. I prefer pastors that have an education in at least Greek.

  One thing that I learned from being a JW, NEVER take anyone's word for what the Bible says or means. We are all responsible for reading it and understanding it ourselves, linguistically, culterally, and spiritually.
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  greendawn

  What is certain there was no GB in the early church seeking to organise almost every aspect of the church as is the case with the GB over their org. Most of the direction was entrusted to the Holy Spirit. As Paul said whoever plants and waters, it is God that causes the growth.
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  AuldSoul

  Home for a quick bite. LOVE the thoughts expressed so far.

  I guessed when I put (For Christians) in front that it would be enough to indicate the religious context. I apologize for any confusion on that score. If any are NOT Christians and read this thread, please expect to find discussion of things you might find silly. Like Holy Spirit. I didn't post this thread to be politically correct or to argue the merits of the Bible and I will take any posts that trend that way as an attempt to take this thread off-topic.

  I intend to show that 1st Century Christianity was VERY far removed from most organized Christian religions I have studied out. I have yet to find an instance of a preacher-in-a-pulpit that people come to and revere as their educator.

  Narkissos, I think your post was very well stated, and I have an answer...at least within the framework the Authorized Bible offers. It seems to me there was a fair degree of agreement between Paul, John, and James on the subject of organization, specifically regarding it's source. Which is why I included the qualifier "Human" in the title.

  greendawn: Most of the direction was entrusted to the Holy Spirit.

  That's how I see it, too.

  Respectfully,
  AuldSoul
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  OUTLAW

  I can`t remember the whole phrase so any help would be appreciated.."Where ever two or more are gather`d in my name..???...OUTLAW