by RR 83 Replies latest jw friends
Lovelylil, this is what you said:
"Pastor" Russell was not preaching for 40 years the end of the gentile times was in 1914. He was preaching it was 1874. He changed the dates later on when nothing happened.
You said he was preaching it was 1874, he never preach the end of the gentile times was in 1874.
Personally I think the JW's are essentially a monstrous corporate hybrid that grew out of the humble bible students, and that the bible students are closer to the truth than the JW's. However, unfortunately the Russellites still around today still hold on to most of Russell's old chronological bathwater that should have been thrown out ages ago. Its good to keep the baby, but all of Russell's old chronologies and bunkum ideas in that regard are still sentimentally held onto and rigorously defended by most of the Bible Students today. Tis a pity.
Why is it a pity, if BIble Students today still believe it is Biblically sound? They have written much in defense of their chronological dates. Unlike the JW's who avoid it!
RR
I will admit I mixed up the end of the gentile times with the beginning of the harvest and Christ's "invisible" presence. That is because the present day WT mixed it up also. They teach that Russell taught for 40 years that Christ would come invisibly in 1914, when the original date was 1874 and the presence was not to be invisible but visibly. When Christ did not arrive the presence was changed to invisible. Sorry for that, I can admit when I made a mistake but as Carla has brought and and showed quotes to back it up - Russell made many predictions that did not come true.
That being said I still personally like the guy and most of his teachings. And you will find we agree on many points. There is very little we disagree on the main points I see differently are: 1. the invisible presence of Christ, 2 that the pyramids back up the date 1914 3. that Jesus is Michael the archangel 4. who or what the faithful servant mentioned in Matthew really is. 5. that the dead saints were raised in 1878 and a few other minor things. The divine plan of the ages which is in the bible and Russell taught very eloquently in his first book, I back up 100% and presently teach the same thing today. It was reading this book that helped me break away from the WT.
Russell was persecuted terribly for teaching God's plan for all and helping people break away from enslavement to thier churches and I firmly believe he was used by the Lord for this purpose. And due to his teachings he was hated by the other churches and many things attributed to him are not true. I read a lot about him, all his SIS books which I got from the Dawn, Most of his old magazines and I think he did more good than harm to anyone. .
Unlike Russell - Rutherford was pure evil, through and through. And the WT today is nothing like the one during Russell's time. Lilly
RR - one more thing. If you can show me anything else that bible students today have written that you sa supports Russell's dates, I would be happy to read it with an open mind. I mean writings independent of those that just quote from Russell. If it is the truth I am certainly willing to hear it. Lilly
Forscher,
In regards to CT Russell and the "faithful and discreet slave," I think you might find of interest the following thread:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/10037/1.ashx
I also found very beneficial the following:
God always uses imperfect humans to do his work
There is only one way to make any sense of the above statement:
********* LIGHTBULB MOMENT ALERT*********
Thus explains, comprehensively, how messed up this God HAS to be.
Is it any wonder... {Norm, help me out here darlin'}
sKally
Just a little flashback:
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,825436,00.html
Marching to Armageddon
Posted Monday, Aug. 11, 1958
The only score card at Yankee Stadium and the Polo Grounds last week was the Bible. Speakers' platforms disguised the diamonds; flower banks decked the pitching mounds; burlap mountains, artificial waterfalls hid second and third bases. New York had never seen a convention so big; even Billy Graham's Yankee Stadium throng last year—100,000, and 10,000 turned away—was small by comparison. From 48 states and 122 foreign countries, Jehovah's Witnesses had gathered 194,000 strong. For eight days they packed both ballparks in a "giant Bible school." Through steamy rain they went on singing hymns, praying, hearing speeches and reports about the fast-growing sect (total members: 719,000) that believes Armageddon is just around the corner.
If New Yorkers expected religious hysteria, they had to wait for baseball to come back. Without a hitch, in orderly procession, the Witnesses arrived aboard two chartered ships and 65 chartered planes, scores of special trains and buses, more than 20,000 cars { chartered??} —and all quickly learned which subways ran to the ballparks. There some 40 doctors and 125 nurses tended occasional dizzy spells or upset children; some 6,000 volunteers served as many as 70,000 meals an hour, and a tireless volunteer cleanup squad of 2,500 polished the parks to perfection at the end of each day. At night not a single Witness lacked shelter—thanks to 13,000 volunteers, who had been ringing doorbells all this spring in a 100-mile radius to find rooms. Many visitors were up early in the morning to walk miles around Manhattan, pushing perambulators and politely peddling their quotas of the Watchtower and Awake! before hurrying off to the assembly grounds. "This is the grandest of news," said Nathan Homer Knorr, head of the Witnesses. "We are living at the end of this worry-filled, problem-racked, loveless old world. We want the new. We are eager to leave the old."
Hose on Hell. The Witnesses' creed is based on what they regard as utter obedience to the Bible ("God's complete word of truth"). They accept the Biblical prophecy that Satan will be defeated in the cataclysm of Armageddon, followed by eternal life for the righteous. Other Christians share that belief, but sharply disagree with the Witnesses' assertion that, as the only true followers of the Bible, Witnesses alone will be saved.
The movement began in 1872 with Charles Taze Russell, a small, intense-looking Pittsburgh merchant who joined the Congregational Church but disliked thinking of hell as fiery and eternal. "Would you hold a puppy dog's tail in the fire three minutes?" he asked. Neither would a just God, was his argument. To "turn the hose on hell," Russell went back to the Bible and found the words: "And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake" (Daniel 12:2).
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From the Aug. 11, 1958 issue of TIME magazine
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sKally
RR; has proven time and again to be of no different mind set. than of the most RABID WT DEFENDERS. WHEN IT COMES TO RUSSELL. he will lie, twist, hide facts, and straight out bare false witness. to defend the idol he worships charles taze russell. for a man that has just about every wt book going. he's great at judging the wt post 1918 , and cursing rutherFRAUD TO DEATH. but he's a HYPOCRITE, everything the wt has done after 1918 is bad. but everything RUSSELL DID was the next best thing since the coming of christ. it's so sad a man with so much knowledge. is blinded just because the russellites in new jersey . helped him get on his feet when he was down and out. so now he worships them. this is no different than what the wt does till this day. hook some lonely destatude person. give them a helping hand. and now claim they are the best thing since MIRCLE WHEAT.. . and RR FELL FOR IT. in truth your just a RABID RUSSELLITE. we all here love your knowledge of how the wt post 1918 is full of crap. your in the top 10 on this stuff. now apply the same standards to your idol (pastor) RUSSELL. . till then your a HYPOCRITE. with tons of knowledge. and can't apply it with a clear mind. now you can just go and hide like you did one year ago . when your god russell got EXPOSED last year right here on jwd. but come around when we all need your talanted research 1918 to present. john
RR,
I'm wondering why you even care or why are you wasting precious time examining anything Russell had to say. This has absolutely no relevance for us today. It only meant something to him or anyone at that time period because they were living at that time period. So many have a need to make the time that they are living somehow more meaningful than any other time period. That's why those JW's living during 1975 made that period so important. They'd do it again in the 2000s, if they could get away with it. But the WT knows better than to beat that horse again. We're free of all that--THANK GOD. If you really feel the need to exercise your obviously deep, mathematical, complex mind read, "The Joys of Statistics."
Nam
