New Biography of Pastor Russell

by RR 83 Replies latest jw friends

  • Oroborus21
    Oroborus21

    Jim Whitney, Is that (one of) the books that Barbara is working on? I would be interested in her progress.

    Nicolau: Not exactly an accurate statement to say that "so few follow Russell's teachings." If we include both JWs and Bible Students together as following (at least in part) Russell's teachings (or at least his particular synthesized theology since many of his teachings originated elsewhere) then you have at 6 million plus (JWs) and (since they don't keep membership records) probably at least 1 million plus Bible Students (and that's just currently living faithful). That's not small potatoes but in fact stands as a respectable segment of Christianity.

    http://www.jehovahs-witnesses.info/adventism.html

    http://www.adherents.com/adh_rb.html

    -Eduardo

  • johnny cip
    johnny cip

    RR; if you been reading the threads the last week. some one came up with a russell period wt. that said russell said he was choosen at birth. look it up. i will not waste my time . i'll post a few old threads . were you were worshipping russell. liked a rabid jw. and got your self exposed and totally trounced. hang in there i'll look them up. remember the sewing maching, telegraph, otis elevator. etc. being proofs that we are in the time of the end. i'm sure you can't wait to defend that crap again this year. i'm just warming up. we will let the board judge . how great russell was. maybe i'll start how all colored people will become white. is that your wish? remember it was a miricle. we will start there. you post all the articles russell printed on the subject ... john

  • RR
    RR
    RR, I for one will never resort to attacking you personally for your beliefs. I had that happen to me on a bible student forum as you well know and did not like it one bit.

    Hmmmm ... Lovelylil, I'm not so sure about that! I was on that forum, you were pretty brutal towards me and others. Most people come in introduce themselves, and begin to dialogue on certain aspects of trutyh, whether pro or con. You came right in, without so much as a "hello, my name is ...." and attacked!

    RR

  • lovelylil
    lovelylil

    RR -

    I find it interesting that even though I am not attacking you, you are trying to attack me by saying that I went into your forum without introducing myself and attacked people views. Since when is asking for biblical proof about the pyramids backing up Russell's dates attacking someone? As I recall, I simply kept asking to have my questions answered without being referred to one of Russell's books for the answer. And I showed proof contrary to Russell's teachings. If it was wrong, I asked for anyone to help me see where it is wrong so that I could correct my wrong view but instead of real answers, everyone kept giving me over and over again the name of the SIS books and page number for the answer and like I have explained even in this thread I do not want the answer from any book except the bible. Now either the BS refused to answer using the bible alone or they could not answer the question using the bible alone. (most likely the latter)

    but I certainly did not attack anyone at all. And I am shocked that you would really outright lie about the situation. I was not the one who resorted to name calling and abusive speach. The BS on the forum were. It reminded me of the JW's and how if you ask them an honest question they think you are attacking them and then they get abusive. That is what happend to me on the BS forum and I was called satanic, told I was not in the body of Christ unless I accept Russell as the faithful servant (by you), someone said I was putting myself in Russell's position, (and yet they say you do not idolize him?). Shouldn't BS be concerned with someone putting themselves in the Lord's position? (sort of like some have done to Russell) and was called other names. This all when I was new out of the WT and was questioning everything.

    What is also interesting is that you are picking out this one thing from my last comment but yet are totally ignoring my questions asking you to back up your statement with evidence that Russell's dates were correct and biblically proven. Where is your proof? You are trying to throw up a smoke screen and turn the conversation into something else. This is also a typical JW tactic. Too bad you did not learn anything from leaving the tower. Oh, I know - you are going to say that you won't give me the proof as I can't "see" it for I am not chosen right? Well, I heard it all before.

    You may be interested in knowing that many of your bible students who read what I posted on the forum and the responses I got actually called and emailed me to opologize for the actions of the Bible Students who resorted to attacking me for asking questions about where the bible supports Russell's view of the pyramids. I also copied all the responses as well as my questions and emailed it to the many BS I personally knew and associated with. As I remember, most did not have a high opinion of you or your forum.

    I don't hold any hard feelings though you all did me a favor. I broke off contact with the BS immediately as the whole thing smacked of the WT and thankfully this time around was able to see clearly enough to not be fooled again. As soon as people started name calling me when I asked them for proof of thier beliefs or told me I could not see the truth unless I accepted Russell as the faithful servant I knew it was the same mindset as the witnesses.

    Also if you have been paying attention on this forum and on this thread, you will see that I said some really nice things about Russell. For even though I don't share the same view you have of the man, I do believe he did much good.

    That being said, I am still awaiting the answers to my initial questions to you and the references for the statements you made. But really I am sure I will not get any answers or references will I? Becuase you don't really have any. Just like all the WT has is the proof in thier own books which were written to back up their view - you only have Russell's writings to back him up and nothing else solid or independent of him. If that is enough proof for you than that is fine but you cannot expect everyone else to accept that as proof. And you should not get upset and feel you are being attacked when you are asked for more information.

    Lastly - I'll respond if I ever get proof but will not turn this thread into a debate about the BS forum. You can believe what you want because many here know me and have been reading my posts for a long time and know even here I have never attacked anyone of a differing opinion. It is just simply not in my nature to do so. And I do realize to a degree that you are on this forum simply to get information on us that you can carry over to your forum and discuss (or should I say poke fun of?) sort of like you do to the Dawnists. Please don't deny that this is true as a friend of mine who is a BS and posts on your forum has emailed me several of the posts that were started about me and told me how my posts here on JWD have been posted and discussed by your forum members. I am flattered really that you all would be so concerned with me and what I believe. After all, I hardly ever give any of you a second thought. Peace, Lilly

  • lovelylil
    lovelylil

    RR

    One more thing. You say most people can go to the BS forum and give their views whether pro or con and that is another outright lie. The only acceptable views on that forum were the ones that backed up or praised Russell. Anyone else who showed contrary information was quickly attacked and told to get lost.

    You may forget but when I met you in Connecticut, you were the one who intially invited me to the forum and gave me the address. I did introduce myself on the forum and told everyone about the things I agreed with on Russell. And the only thing I brought out that I did not agree with were the teachings of the pyramids backing up the 1914 date of Russell's. I gave ample evidence that Russell used the pyramid measurements to arrive at the date, although he did not put it into print until his SIS books came out. and that Russell was not the only "preacher" at that time to share this beleif. But in fact Russell borrowed this teaching from others. I gave links to the pyramids showing that is has been proven who built the pyramids including the one in Giza and when they were built - also for what purpose - burial tombs and for worship of the sun God Ra. And asked the BS to show proof contrary to all that I provided. There so called proof were texts they COPIED right out of Russell's books.

    When I refused this "proof" the response was to immediately call me names and tell me I am not a Christian. And to defend Russell as if they were defending God himself. It was really creepy to say the least. I'm glad you are an expert on Russell but you really should read your bible more. The scriptures that Russell used to support his view of the Giza pyramid was totally taken out of context. I know I also read all his books and most of his WT. I also went to the library and read newspaper articles on Russell and spoke with an eyewitness - the elderly women I mentioned who lived to be 105 and whose parents became BS under Russell and knew him personally. She also had many rare books of Russells but treated them as just that - books written by a man and not a replacement for God's word.

    The problem with most BS (not all) is that because they accept Russell as the faithful servant they WILL NOT look at anything contrary to what Russell teaches. This is exactly the same thing the JW's do. They accept the WT as the faithful servant and therefore will not even listen to anything contrary to what their precious WT states. To them anything contrary must be wrong. They view all other information through blinders and cannot see the truth.

    The problem with some who leave the WT is they do not remove the blinders before researching other views. They don't remove them because it is very painful for them to do so. I know from personal experience as my hubby has not yet removed his blinders and still filters all information thru them. Some exchange thier blinders for new ones that are more comfortable but are still blinders. I've firmly come to believe that only the Lord can remove these blinders and only if we trust in him completely and no man or organization will he do this for us.

    Anyway in case you forgot: on this thread you said "Russell did not get the date 1914 from the measurement of the pyramids, rather the pyramids simply backed up the date that Russell already had correct". Both I and Alan F asked you to support this statement with a reference that we could check. And we are still waiting. This is the only issue I was asking you about in this thread and you have addressed everything else except this one thing. The only restriction I put on the answer is that I do not want you to say to me: Russell was correct because he is the faithful servant and he says so. For that would not be a real answer but rather "circular reasoning".

    Forscher - thanks for that information about Rutherford who was the one behind making Russell the Laodician messenger and the faithful servant. No doubt like you said it was to keep the BS following him and his new WT organization by making them believe Russell was still involved in the WT. Too bad they don't let poor Russell rest in peace as he has been dead for many decades now. Lilly

  • RR
    RR

    I still have the old database of the forum Lilli, you came on calling us Russellites, worshgippers of man, and all sort of derogatory names. Certain ones were offended and went on the offense.

    You asked to give proof, we did, you stated we were quoting Russell, so we gave you scripture and reason, you then said "those are Russell's scriptures" as if Russell has his own scriptures.

    I'm not going to get into this again, because it's fruitless!

    RR

  • lovelylil
    lovelylil

    RR - I guess it is true what someone in this thread said about you. You will resort to bold faced lies to protect Russell. I really did not think you would stoop that low but guess I was wrong. As soon as the events happened I emailed the brothers at the dawn as well as the ones in CT I was associating with and they went onto your forum and read it all themselves. And they did not see one piece of evidence that I called anyone any name at all. You can lie but the Lord know the truth.

    And AGAIN - you are dodging and not offering one proof that Russell's dates were correct. But keep lying that I called you Russellites and worshipers of man on the BS forum. You sure do a good job at blowing smoke. I feel sorry for you. You have to protect the lie at all costs so that you do not admit that Russell is more important to your faith than than anyone or anything else.

    I won't waste my time with you anymore. I knew you would lie and not answer the question or provide the proof Alan and I asked for. That is why I got you into this discussion from the beginning. So that everyone out here reading this thread will see that the BS mentallity is almost exactly the same as the JW one and for those just leaving the tower who think the BS are more loving, please beware. While many are more loving - you will not be able to ask pointed questions and get real answers. You will only be referred to a book written by Russell. Anyone that writes a book will put in scriptures that he thinks supports his view. But I went one step further than Russell thought people would and looked up his scriptures in thier complete context and that is when I saw how he twisted them out of context and read into them things that were not there. Thanks for your help in getting this message out. I won't bother in dialogue with you any longer as you have nothing new to add and I for one have no interest in following a dead man.

    And many here may think I am being harsh with RR as you all know how mild tempered I usually am but please do not be stumbled by it for even our Lord Jesus dealt more harshly with liars and hypocrites. Lilly

  • RR
    RR

    Whatever ... tell you what, when I get the time, I'll rebuild the site and cut and paste what you exactly stated.

    As to the DAWN, we're on the outs anyway, their no better than the Watchtower!

    So they would love nothing better than to find ammo to usse against me!

    RR

  • lovelylil
    lovelylil

    RR -

    yeah right! Like I would ever trust you to "cut and paste" my comments. Seems to me from speaking to many bible students, even ones on your own forum that you are on the outs with a lot of people? The truth is when me and my hubby first met you and your lovely wife, we really thought you were great people. You probably are. I'm sorry in a way that things did not work out in a way that we could keep an open dialogue. My hubby really enjoyed a talk you gave at a CT conference.

    I know for a fact I never once called anyone any names but I will admit I asked some very hard questions of the BS. Do you blame me? If I had asked hard Q's before joining the WT I would have saved my family a lot of heartache. They followed me in as I was the one searching for truth. The bad experiences we had in the tower followed by the one with the BS has almost totally recked my poor hubby's faith. Not mine, I am fully 100% grounded in the Lord. (consecrated that is) But I feel responsible for what happened with my hubby.

    I am not totally against Russell and believe it or not - I recomend his book the Divine Plan of the Ages to most people who are looking to find out what God's purpose is for man and the earth. And I have taken a lot of flack for doing so. But I will not just because I accept this book as true, throw away total reasoning ability and accept all that the man taught as being fact without checking it out. I did that with the WT. I accepted some basic truths and because of that I began to accept everything they taught as truth and it took many years to find out it was not all truth.

    And I do not believe that by asking for proof other than Russell's to back up what he says is attacking him or BS in any way. You probably feel that way for the same reason JW's feel that way when you do not agree with the "society" you both accept the faithful servant teaching and thus believe your version of it is infallible or has special knowledge of things others do not.

    My experiences so far with the BS movement is that by asking tough Q's I get only one of two responses - the first is they totally ignore the questions completely and change the subject. The second is they attack me personally calling me apostate or non christian. or sometimes turning the tables and saying I am attacking or persecuting them. Sound familiar? It should because it is the same thing the JW's do.

    Asking questions is not meant for attacking but I can see how you would feel that way - especially if you do not have an answer to the Q's. I am always open to a diaglogue and would look over any proofs you have in Russell's dates. Maybe he was right, you seem to think so and many others yet for some reason will not explain why and with what scriputural proofs you have to support this. If Russell got these dates on his own using only the bible, then any BS should be able to reason on the scriptures proving the dates too? I'm here and ready to be enlightened. Lilly

    If you do not want to present your biblical proof here on this forum you can email me here: [email protected] please provide references to biblical texts.

  • lovelylil
    lovelylil

    BTW: I happen to agree with your opinion on the Dawn.

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit