Gays Leave JWD!

by hambeak 141 Replies latest jw friends

  • Sparkplug
    Sparkplug
    They are not victims but select it by intelligent choice and painting them as a minority is not true is it? So why the great displays of sympathy coz he's "gay"....he or she is human and should be EQUALLY treated as a person not a poor victim. If someone treats a crippled person badly does'nt that just make it a bad event from that other person ,and I would imagine that the crippled person would not want gushings of "oh you poor person " for we see you are a cripple. Some people stand out in this world by CHOICE and others suffer bigotry for being born disabled - now is anyone going now to say coz a "gay" says he's born that way he's a cripple, he could'nt help it?

    I understand the discussion on how does a person become gay is a whole new discussion. My point is that Hambeak has never just thrown his sexual choice in everyones face. He is very tactful in his dealings with peple. In fact a lot more than my "bull in a china closet" self. This person seemed to be in need of some help and Hambeak did as he would most anyone and offered a lending ear. My main anger at this person is his presumptuousness in calling and claiming the board was not for Hambeak. I am part of this board and I would never say that.

    I would not ram sexuality down anyones throat, but please do not speak for me. If you don't like that Hambeak is Gay...walk away yourself. Don't call and ask him to leave.... that is so underhanded. Kind of scary if you ask me.

    Hmm interesting to see everyone falling over themselves to condemn an alleged fellow poster who is alleged to have made homophobic remarks on the Phone.(why oh why do People give their numbers to complete strangers?)

    I trust you have informed Simon, hambeak?

    In my experience he is very quick to deal with problem posters.Maybe that would be better than starting threads with inflammatory headlines.

    Ok, Fleaman, I know Hambeak "outside of here" and I do not see him creating drama. He is a straight up chap. And inform Simon of what? This person asked for this did he not? He spoke for the board and IMO the board is speaking back. Inflammatory? This is a discussion as far as I can tell. If it was a huge fight would it not be yanked already? We have seen that happen. Seems to me this is a reasonable discussion. I could be wrong...often am, but I find it very interesting to see the assumptions people have made about me and let me know via board and pm because I have written that I don't like someone speaking for me.
  • Ragnarökkr
    Ragnarökkr

    Gay bloke here!

    I kind of agree with fleaman, Hamstring shouldn't have given this particular bigot the air of publicity and in sticking a thread on here saying "Gays Leave JWD!" and reporting this bigots twisted views he may well make other Gay Ex dubs think twice about posting here. Yes I know a lot of you have responded with affirmative views to this thread but it still creates a feeling of unease in a group that have already been rejected once.

    Hamstring, stop being a drama queen and ignore it

    Ben

  • My MILs worst nightmare, a nonJW
    My MILs worst nightmare, a nonJW
    Wozadummy: I don't see anyone giving sympathy to Hambeak "because he's gay." I do see sympathy for the way he was purportedly treated. Big difference

    Astute comment! My beef is that I don't like it when men act like wussies! Calling up the dude and going all off on him is being a wussie!

    This is a forum. If wussie boy had any real kahoneys he would have posted a thread giving his views, not call up the dude and do the Pat Robertson dance.

  • gordon d
    gordon d

    Geezzz... Sparky!
    What's with all the bigot-bashing... are you some kinda' red-neck-a-phobe?


    I sure hope you'll be in my corner if anyone attacks me!

  • Confession
    Confession
    Confession, are you kidding? You don't think that growing up hetero and JW was profoundly damaging? I did and it was. How about growing up gay and Catholic? How about gay and Mormon? How about hetero and Amish? How about hetero or gay and atheist? Growing up sexual is difficult, as Spark has wirtten about at length, ad nauseum! It is all equally meaningful and we all want to talk about it - that is why we're here. I'm still missing the point - it was MORE difficult if you were gay? Isn't everything? Take the blinders off!

    All right, Bizzy Bee, I will comply with your instruction to "take the blinders off." I have now placed them on the desk next to my computer. Now to answer your questions: Yes, I think growing up hetero and JW was profoundly damaging. And, yes, I think it was probably more difficult if you were gay. Yes, I think if was incredibly difficult if you were gay and Catholic, Mormon, etc.

    I can say this because I too grew up as a JW and, for a time, served as an elder. Once a close friend who'd formerly been an elder approached me and another elder, requesting a private conversation. This man and his wife had also been my neighbor--both of them having been regular pioneers. He wanted to speak with us about something, but it took him so long to get to the point. Finally, after much time, he told us he had been, throughout his life, "struggling with homosexuality." The self-loathing this man dealt with was extraordinary. Not only did he have to deal with the things we all did as JWs, but he also constantly came face-to-face with an institutionally-supported environment that he was a sexually perverted freak.

    It was only after speaking with him, that my eyes became opened as to how hard it really must be. During one bookstudy, the conductor actually made this statement to the group: "Do you really think Jehovah wants to fill His new system with a buncha fags?" I also heard an old Pioneer sister use this word with extreme vitriol in a large car group out in service. Once at an elder's school, the Brooklyn Bethel-appointed speaker explained to us that although "men who lie with men" are mentioned in the same group with "fornicators and adulterers" as those who will not inherit God's Kingdom, homosexuality was to be considered a more serious sin against Jehovah. He expressed that fornication was taking one step in the wrong direction, but homosexual fornication was taking two steps, since it was an unnatural deviation from Jehovah's intention for sex.

    Yes, coping with homosexuality must be enormously difficult for anyone in a society where it is frowned upon by many. But, as you no doubt know, the JW religion is much more difficult on those who supposedly "digress" than Catholicism or most of Protestantism. Might a person be ostracized in those other religions? Yes. But often, in time, they can at least maintain a good relationship with many family members and friends--without an institutionally-enforced shunning upon them. And there exist a huge number of people within those other religions who are very accepting of homosexuals, and refuse to let an organization keep them from speaking to or eating with a friend.

    And even if homosexual ostracism and shunning were perfectly equal in all other religions? So what? That should not prevent a person from bringing it up in this forum, should it?

    I truly don't understand your frustration with this thread. As many have attested, they've enjoyed Hambeak's posts without ever knowing he was gay. It's not as if he wholly defines himself in this way. This topic began when another contributor found out he was gay--and tried to boot him off the forum. That was outrageous, and it is therefore not surprising that he would create this thread because of it. We all have our pet issues. The original doctrinal point that led me to an "awakening" about the WTS was the subject of confession. Although it does not dominate my posts, I probably mention the subject more than anyone else in this forum. Should I be told...

    "WHAT IS THE BIG DEAL WITH THIS CONFESSION SUBJECT??!! I just don't get it; the CATHOLICS have confession too! PLEASE CUT THE CONFESSION CRAP ALL THE TIME, WILL YOU?! Take the blinders off!!!!"
  • Sparkplug
    Sparkplug

    Gay bloke here!

    I kind of agree with fleaman, Hamstring shouldn't have given this particular bigot the air of publicity and in sticking a thread on here saying "Gays Leave JWD!" and reporting this bigots twisted views he may well make other Gay Ex dubs think twice about posting here. Yes I know a lot of you have responded with affirmative views to this thread but it still creates a feeling of unease in a group that have already been rejected once.

    Hamstring, stop being a drama queen and ignore it

    Ben

    Not to fight. I truly mean that, but we are to have a discussion board but not discuss because of the "gay" issue? I find that so dang odd. We fight over politics all the time and discussions last for weeks and nobody sees the Dems run for cover. Nor does anyone stop joining because the Republicans have 'ol George in office. Those debates get long and the fire here is nothing compared to the viewpoints here.

    What is that about?

  • hambeak
    hambeak

    Dear Rag

    I am not a drama queen or sporting any agenda, this person did not hurt my feelings and he expressed what he felt. He is entitled to that and his comments did not indicate violence just intolerance.

    I know he is hurting and I guess he had to lash out thats ok I have broad shoulders.

  • funkyderek
    funkyderek

    wozadummy:
    (still iz, methinks)

    For some reason I feeled compelled to speak up and not with the usual politically correct phrases.

    Nor indeed grammatically, syntactically, orthographically or factually correct.

    I've read hambeak's posts and never really picked up on him being "gay"

    Maybe your gay-dar wasn't working properly.

    ,and you know I really like to read posts on different topics without the underlying tone of these posts being from a "gay"perspective.

    What exactly is a gay perspective? What was the underlying tone of hambeak's posts? Are you concerned that you might catch gay? And I'm a little unsure what you want; should hambeak be upfront about his sexuality so that you don't have to read posts with an underlying gay tone, or should he never mention it or allude to it in case it offends you?

    Some one phoning up like that is terrible to put somone down for ANY known thing which is, to me a private matter.

    It's marginally better than doing it publicly.

    Advertising your sexual inclinations on a primarily Jehovahs Witness discussion forum to me is tasteless

    Then why did you do so in your very first post, you hypocrite?

    and I don't give a shit if it's popular to condascend,fluff up, or pander to the whims of some people thru commenting on how terrible it is to bash verbally "gays".

    It's not about popularity. It's about treating people decently.

    I hate this terminology given to "classes" of people ,labelling them and then they get verbally bashed don't they?

    We all wear many labels. I am male, left-handed, atheist, vegetarian, Irish etc. I don't speak for any one of those "classes" and there is a risk that some bigot will abuse me because I happen to be a member of one of them, but the labels are still valid and useful.

    If I had a bent for hiding cherbals in my butt and came on here seeking support from all because some dick abused me ,would you all rush to me with sympathetic messages to the same degree I wonder .What if I complained that I was born this way with "cherbal in my butt" fetish ,supposedly caused by my dna and too many fluffy teddies in my crib ,would I get the same response from all here ? For I think I should not for this is a discussion group for JW stuff is it not?

    Most people would regard you as free to do what you want with your butt, although as a lover of animals I would be concerned with the way you were treating the gerbils, just like as a lover of the English language I am a bit concerned with the horrible way you've abused the word.

    Or am I being labelled now as a poofter basher myself now, well no I should,nt be but that just depends on whether you all consider yourselves as sheep in white and I'm black.

    I think you're saved somewhat by your appalling inability to write a clear sentence. Nobody's really sure if you're bashing or not.

    That's why I'm saying this coz to follow the popular flow of thinking is weakness as I see it and to pander to someones homosexuallity is just that.

    The "popular flow of thinking" is not always wrong. Refusing to follow it just because it's popular is hardly a sign of great mental prowess. Is there a better reason that you have such trouble with other people's sex lives?

    They are not victims but select it by intelligent choice and painting them as a minority is not true is it?

    They don't choose to be homosexual anymore than you choose to be heterosexual, but they do choose to take part in homosexual acts, just as you choose to take part in heterosexual acts. They are a minority in that they fit every useful definition of the word. Is there any reason why their sex lives should trouble you so?

    So why the great displays of sympathy coz he's "gay"....he or she is human and should be EQUALLY treated as a person not a poor victim.

    Absolutely. The sympathy is not because he's gay. It's because he's not being treated equally, but is being harrassed by a bigot because of the incidental fact of his sexuality.

    If someone treats a crippled person badly does'nt that just make it a bad event from that other person ,and I would imagine that the crippled person would not want gushings of "oh you poor person " for we see you are a cripple. Some people stand out in this world by CHOICE and others suffer bigotry for being born disabled - now is anyone going now to say coz a "gay" says he's born that way he's a cripple, he could'nt help it?

    I can't quite figure out your meaning there, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and hope it wast just a muddle of disconnected nonsense, not a tirade of old-fashioned ignorant bigotry.

    I'm going to read hambeak's posts the same way as I always did ,with interest,

    Good. It would be idiotic to stop reading someone's work simply because their tastes don't always match yours exactly.

    I don't want to know if someones sexual leaning are this way or that

    No, you just don't want to know if they're "that". You alluded to your sexual leanings four times in your very first post on this forum and probably didn't give it a second thought.

    ...if there is a god who judges all he will one day give the answer individually to each one's life and if he condemns"gays" at that moment, who will stand by them then I wonder?

    I would, for one.

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW

    Hambeak is new to the board..Somebody wants him off the board because he`s gay..If Hambeak had`nt made this thread,he would`nt know he is very welcome here..That`s gotta p*ss off the gay-basher..LOL!!..I want Hambeak off the board because he`s getin all the ladys attention!..He`s a friggin gay chick-mangnet,how the hell does that work???..LOL!!...OUTLAW

  • Ragnarökkr
    Ragnarökkr
    We fight over politics all the time and discussions last for weeks and nobody sees the dems run for cover. Nor does anyone stop joining because the Republicans have 'ol George in office.

    No one ever got kicked out of the truth and lost their family and friends for being a dem or repuplican though. I did though for being a gay man.

    My point was that this board is a support board for the likes of us and by posting a thread with a very scary title Hammy could scare Gay and Lesbian posters away. People should think a little about how something as simple as a thread title will effect other posters before posting.

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