"Let the woman keep silent"

by belbab 66 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    belbab,

    Your epic of early Christianity is so nicely written that I don't feel like picking it apart. You already know the gist of my potential objections anyway: a blend of several stories is yet another story. But pedagogically you may well be right. Offering JWs (and others) slightly different variants of their meta-narratives is probably more helpful, in most cases, than criticising them radically.

    The major problem I see with your particular argument here is that persecution is conspicuously absent from the background of many NT texts, especially the Corinthian correspondence. Seems like the Christians were welcome everywhere in Corinth, including temples and brothels.

  • belbab
    belbab

    Daniel P

    How shall I dish it to you, like at Bethel, do I serve it to the left or to the right?

    Which side did you sit on? You have Top Priority, ahead of the other posters; you have my full focused attention.

    In fact, I think you are full of crap.

    I feel a story coming on. How high and what colour you want it? Like your logo, black or white, speared by a tongue of red?

    Now here is a subject I can be happy to discuss. I grew up on the stuff. I got hauled up before the teacher in grade two for throwing snowballs at the girl’s outhouse, no plumbing or running water in those days. As kids we used to go through the fields and turn over dried cow pies where the wormdies not for fish bait. When there was no snow balls, we fired dried up horse buns. One Jdub girl I used to know told how she as a kid, ran through the fields barefoot and enjoyed moist hot cow pancakes squishing up between her toes.

    In the late fall, just before Christmas, for the first time I went door to door in northern BC town of Quesnel. I met, out in the boonies, an old farmer who was really pizzed off with JWs. He said that in the Awake magazine, Christmas was denigrated by an article in the magazine, which said that a load of cow manure would be delivered to one’s door for Christmas. Being only studying for a few months and quite naïve, I said I would look it up and verify it. Lo and behold, looking up the mag for the year before, the first article in the Awake, the first paragraph, gave the offer for a load of manure to be delivered to your door for Christmas. He was right! But with one small oversight. Just as some on this thread do not understand or overlook the two little marks. “..…” in the title of this thread, the ole farmer was not aware that the article was commencing with a quotation from an advertisement for a truck load of manure for Christmas. But he was right about one thing, the article was denigrating Christmas. Look it up, it is an Awake just before xmas of 1952 or maybe year before.

    Moving on. After the Gilead graduation ceremonies ,spring of 1960, I along with two other students (grade A’s) spent most of the night after midnight cleaning shitters and the rest of the premises. I had given over my bed to a Bethelite who is now on the governing board of one of the Society’s corporations.

    In Pakistan we had to tread carefully between the dog turds in the yard as we walked to dilapidated unplumbed servant quarters used as the missionary home, a left-over from old British colonial days.

    Oh ya, one other thing, even now, twice a week, I give my wife a break and go and change diapers of an eighty- eight year old air force vet.

    Now getting back to the Bible, I have made a study of the subject, in hand. Scully and I posted an expose of the dung gate of Jerusalem, and how the kings of Israel fled through it at night and headed for the desert. It is a prefiguration of how the Governing body, now and in the future are fleeing from their sanctuary in a figurative way. I have also made a study of the dung heap of Gehenna, found Judas Iscariot’s bones there. Some day I will put some flesh on it and give him a breath of fresh air.

    So, Daniel P, thank you for your post, please be genuinely assured, I do not choose to convince you of one damn thing.

    As for reply to you other posters, my wife, still into nest building, says I got to cool it for a while. I will switch to night shift and answer your posts as quickly as possible.

    belbab, ah, that feels better.

  • daniel-p
    daniel-p

    Daniel P

    How shall I dish it to you, like at Bethel, do I serve it to the left or to the right?

    Which side did you sit on? You have Top Priority, ahead of the other posters; you have my full focused attention.

    In fact, I think you are full of crap.

    I feel a story coming on. How high and what colour you want it? Like your logo, black or white, speared by a tongue of red?

    Now here is a subject I can be happy to discuss. I grew up on the stuff. I got hauled up before the teacher in grade two for throwing snowballs at the girl’s outhouse, no plumbing or running water in those days. As kids we used to go through the fields and turn over dried cow pies where the wormdies not for fish bait. When there was no snow balls, we fired dried up horse buns. One Jdub girl I used to know told how she as a kid, ran through the fields barefoot and enjoyed moist hot cow pancakes squishing up between her toes.

    In the late fall, just before Christmas, for the first time I went door to door in northern BC town of Quesnel. I met, out in the boonies, an old farmer who was really pizzed off with JWs. He said that in the Awake magazine, Christmas was denigrated by an article in the magazine, which said that a load of cow manure would be delivered to one’s door for Christmas. Being only studying for a few months and quite naïve, I said I would look it up and verify it. Lo and behold, looking up the mag for the year before, the first article in the Awake, the first paragraph, gave the offer for a load of manure to be delivered to your door for Christmas. He was right! But with one small oversight. Just as some on this thread do not understand or overlook the two little marks. “..…” in the title of this thread, the ole farmer was not aware that the article was commencing with a quotation from an advertisement for a truck load of manure for Christmas. But he was right about one thing, the article was denigrating Christmas. Look it up, it is an Awake just before xmas of 1952 or maybe year before.

    Moving on. After the Gilead graduation ceremonies ,spring of 1960, I along with two other students (grade A’s) spent most of the night after midnight cleaning shitters and the rest of the premises. I had given over my bed to a Bethelite who is now on the governing board of one of the Society’s corporations.

    In Pakistan we had to tread carefully between the dog turds in the yard as we walked to dilapidated unplumbed servant quarters used as the missionary home, a left-over from old British colonial days.

    Oh ya, one other thing, even now, twice a week, I give my wife a break and go and change diapers of an eighty- eight year old air force vet.

    Now getting back to the Bible, I have made a study of the subject, in hand. Scully and I posted an expose of the dung gate of Jerusalem, and how the kings of Israel fled through it at night and headed for the desert. It is a prefiguration of how the Governing body, now and in the future are fleeing from their sanctuary in a figurative way. I have also made a study of the dung heap of Gehenna, found Judas Iscariot’s bones there. Some day I will put some flesh on it and give him a breath of fresh air.

    So, Daniel P, thank you for your post, please be genuinely assured, I do not choose to convince you of one damn thing.

    As for reply to you other posters, my wife, still into nest building, says I got to cool it for a while. I will switch to night shift and answer your posts as quickly as possible.

    belbab, ah, that feels better.

    Sorry to elicit such a neurotic response. You too, be genuinely assured, I only meant "full of crap" in the friendliest way. When I was a kid, we used to throw dried horse manure turds at each other as well as see how far we could spin a cow pie, as well as roll them down the hillsides. Though I would not venture to say I am "full of crap" in as many ways as you were.

  • belbab
    belbab

    Dan P

    I appreciate your final comments on the subject. Let's move on, any loose ends we can maybe straighten out in time. I really enjoyed your posts about your experiences at Bethel, on your other thread.

    belbab

  • belbab
    belbab


    Diamond Blue

    Paul was clearly chauvinistic and its no wonder he never married with an attitude like his, in fact its a wonder that any woman spoke to him anyway.


    Acts 16:13-15
    13 And on the sabbath day we went forth outside the gate beside a river, where we were thinking there was a place of prayer; and we sat down and began speaking to the women that had assembled. 14 And a certain woman named Lyd´i·a, a seller of purple, of the city of Thy·a·ti´ra and a worshiper of God, was listening, and Jehovah opened her heart wide to pay attention to the things being spoken by Paul. 15 Now when she and her household got baptized, she said with entreaty: “If YOU men have judged me to be faithful to Jehovah, enter into my house and stay.” And she just made us come.
    A commentary says that there probably was no synagogue in that area and that it takes ten men to start one.

    It doesn’t sound like Paul was too chauvinistic here. I don’t think they were after him for his good looks.

    belbab

  • diamondblue1974
    diamondblue1974
    It doesn’t sound like Paul was too chauvinistic here. I don’t think they were after him for his good looks.

    I have no doubt that he had some regard for women I do think his views of women overall were that they were subordinate and not equal in the truest sense of the word.

    Great thread!

    DB74

  • belbab
    belbab
    Christianity is without doubt one of the most flexible of all the religions, allowing its basic doctrines not just to mould its own societies, but to relatively quickly develop around the philosophies of the day. Perhaps its initial fragmentation is its strongest survival instinct as its ability to adapt and evolve has helped it grow well beyond Islam, its closest cousin. Perhaps the greatest of all humanitarians have been impelled for the good of society through the attachment to their Christian faith.

    Hillary Step, your words above have opened up a vista of many new insights for me.

    It brings to my mind some ancient words of Lao Tsu: (D.C. Lau’s translation)

    The spirit of the valley never dies.
    This is called the mysterious female.
    The gateway of the mysterious female
    Is called the root of heaven and earth.
    Dimly visible, it seems as if it were there,
    Yet use will never drain it.

    And also:
    A large state is the lower reaches of a river
    The place where all streams of the world unite.
    In the union of the world,
    The female always gets the better of the male by stillness,
    Being still, she takes the lower position.

    The large state of Christianity is like a river valley into which all streams flow. The messages to the seven churches in the Apocalypse show that each church had its good points and bad points, showing from the beginning its initial fragmentation.
    The ways of Jesus Christ were figuratively of the valley, of the mysterious female. In later periods some of his so-called followers picked up the sword and also died by it. However, Christianity still continues to exist as the mysterious female valley, towards which people of all nations perpetually flow.

    belbab, of the mysterious female emoticon class

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