Did any Man Asend to Heaven Before Jesus?

by gumby 85 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  heathen

  Do Yuri Gagarin and Alan Sheperd count?

  No astronaughts don't count .They did not ascend to the kingdom of the heavens , they only ascended to the heavens above the heavens in the physical universe .
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  Star Moore

  Hello Heathen:

  The great crowd don't get "raptured" but are passed over from death to life like the jewish passover in egypt , instead of smearing lambs blood on their doorway they wash their robes symbolically in the the blood of the lamb as in Revelation 7 . I hesitate to use the word "rapture" myself because people believe they will be ascending to heaven when in fact the bible is saying that the kingdom of the heavens descends on earth . According to the WTBTS it is an enormous city but the WTBTS doesn't even believe it's real for some reason as I've read in their Revelation grand climax book they clearly state it's only figurative . They like to compare their publishing empire to it or some crap that makes no sense and I'm sure they've probly tried to cover over their misinterpretation already. It's been posted on the board they have tried to edit alot of things in it .

  Sorry, if I misunderstood..I really liked your idea about the kingdom of heavens descending on the earth. I assume you are refering to Rev. 21 when Jerusalem comes down like a bride, adorned for her husband.

  I like the way the WT tries to figure out Revelation, as the other religions don't bother, but too bad their interpretation is almost all wrong. I don't think they can interpret it, as they don't have holy spirit at this time.

  I'm beginning to think possibly the city may be a literal center on the earth.. What do you think??
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  M.J.

  That stuff posted by Acadian is just too long. If any explanation for a simple question turns into a novel something must be fishy, I say.
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  heathen

  I'm beginning to think possibly the city may be a literal center on the earth.. What do you think??

  that's what the WTBTS claims it is . Like the spiritual paradise dogma they declared about themselves . I believe it's literal . It's a noahs ark type thing , People that are not allowed in during it's arrival are left outside and destroyed .They don't believe the great crowd inherit the kingdom but only a paradise earth , the good news is about the kingdom tho and the apostles say let those be accursed that declare a different good news than the one they preached about .
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  M.J.

  "There is also the Animal Apocalypse from the early second century BC, which states that Elijah was saved from his enemies by bringing him up into heaven to dwell with Enoch (1 Enoch 89:52; cf. 87:3 on the ascension of Enoch to heaven)"
  
  Digging up an old thread...
  Leolaia, I've looked up the Animal Apocalypse text and only see reference to a "sheep" being spared in 1 Enoch 89:52-53, but no specific reference to Elijah. Any clues on how it's concluded that Elijah is the one being talked about here?
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  MsMcDucket

  A sun chariot is a mythological representation of the sun riding in a chariot. The concept is younger than that of the solar barge, and typically Indo-European, corresponding with the Indo-European expansion after the invention of the chariot in the 2nd millennium BC.

  Examples include:

  • Trundholm sun chariot
  • Germanic Sol riding in a chariot drawn by Arvak and Alsvid
  • Greek Helios riding in a chariot, [1] (see also Phaëton [2] )
  • Sol Invictus depicted riding a quadriga on the reverse of a Roman coin. [3]
  • The Biblical Elijah ascending to Heaven in a Chariot of Fire [4]
  • Vedic Surya riding in a chariot drawn by seven horses
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  Finally-Free

  Does anyone have any idea where Enoch went.....since he never died?

  The nephilim were about to beat the shit out of him and steal his tricorder, so he turned on his communicator and said, "Beam me up Scotty!"

  W
• 

  Narkissos

  M.J.

  The allegory is rather transparent, since it follows the whole "Biblical history" step by step (chapter 89 starts with the Flood, reading it in its entirety makes the meaning of every part unmistakable).

  And again I saw those sheep that they again erred and went many ways, and forsook that their house, and the Lord of the sheep called some from amongst the sheep and sent them to the sheep, but the sheep began to slay them(murder of the prophets). And one of them was saved and was not slain, and it sped away and cried aloud over the sheep; and they sought to slay it, but the Lord of the sheep saved it from the sheep, and brought it up to me (Enoch), and caused it to dwell there. And many other sheep He sent those sheep to testify unto them and lament over them. And after that I saw that when they forsook the house of the Lord and His tower they fell away entirely, and their eyes were blinded.

  So here we have the mission of the prophets after the division of the kingdom (they "forsook that their house" = temple), and one of the prophets being caught up to where Enoch stood.
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  Mary

  Does anyone have any idea where Enoch went.....since he never died?

  He got beamed up.

  
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  Leolaia

  Yeah, notice that v. 51a refers to the sheep straying into different paths with some abandoning that house (i.e. the Temple), and this corresponds to 1 Kings 12 which relates how Jeroboam, when he divided the kingdom, set up new sanctuaries in Bethel and Dan. Then in v. 51b God commissions prophets from among the sheep to minister to them, and this picks up on the prophetic activity during the reign of Jeroboam in 1 Kings 12-14 and the reign of Ahab from 1 Kings 17 onward. The reference in v. 51b to these sheep being killed by the other sheep corresponds to Jezebel's slaughter of the prophets (1 Kings 18:4). But v. 52a says that one of the sheep escaped safely and was not killed. This refers to Elijah who was hidden away and fed by ravens (1 Kings 17:1-6, 18:1-15), who ended up as the only prophet left (18:22). Verse 52b says that this sheep then sprang away because the other sheep still wished to kill it and the sheep cried out over what was happening to him and the prophets and this corresponds to 1 Kings 19:1-18 which portrays Elijah as fleeing to Horeb, distraught over being the only prophet left, wanting to die. Then v. 52c states that the Lord saved this sheep and brought it up to "me" (i.e. Enoch) to dwell with him, i.e. in heaven, cf. 87:3. This then would correspond to Elijah's ascent to heaven in 2 Kings 1-2. Then v. 53 says that this sheep was followed by many other sheep commissioned to minister, and this corresponds to the rest of 2 Kings relating careers of Elisha, Isaiah, and other prophets. So it is quite clear that Elijah is the prophet in view here.

  Compare also the related Apocalypse of Weeks:

  "After this there will arise a fifth week and at its conclusion, the temple of the glorious kingdom will be built forever. After this there will arise a sixth week and all who live in it will become blind, and the hearts of all will stray from wisdom; and in it a man will ascend. And at its conclusion, the temple of the kingdom will be burned with fire and in it the whole race of the chosen root will be dispersed" (1 Enoch 93:7-8).