Out of Mythic into Rational consciousness, the EX-JW Journey

by jst2laws 123 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • jst2laws
    jst2laws

    I have been absent much for almost a year, reading, learning and breaking out of boxes, figuratively. I'm hoping that sharing some thoughts and asking some questions might be fun, and maybe helpful for a few. Have you wondered how two people can look at the same information, go through the same experience as you, perhaps even be party to the same conversation yet come away with an entirely different perception? It used to bug me to death. I often reacted by becoming obsessed with "helping" that person see things as I saw them. Do you remember, or still experience, the frustration? They simply see things differently, but how? Who is right? "Surely it's not me who is wrong". Why can't they see it"? "They just don't get it". Right? But were we not the one who "just didn't get it" when we were JW's? So what was that about? Why could we not see what we now see so clearly? Those of us who REALLY believed it and were experts at defending our beloved JW teachings, are especially guilty of not 'getting it'. What happened since then that we now have a totally different, sometimes opposite, viewpoint. Was it only the opportunity to learn the truth about the truth? That certainly had something to do with it, given the WT's attempts to shield us from this information. But even when we had the opportunity we didn't jump on it immediately, did we? Didn't we resist, maybe even now, still resisting as we hang onto a few cherished beliefs? Growing is a big part of what life is about and our JW experience certainly has caused us to grow. If we can identify what was impeding us from "getting it" back then we may prevent any remnants of that obstacle from impeding us from future growth. It has to do with paradigms, world views, or closer to the foundational cause, levels of consciousness. By "levels" I don't mean to imply we were semi-unconscious while loyal JW's. But our ability to see the big picture, a broader view, was limited by our level of awareness. The data (information) we had, what was given us, was seen only through the narrow vision we had at the time. However, we eventually got brave enough we allowed ourselves to back away and see it all from a different perspective. We began to trust ourselves enough to assess our belief system RATIONALLY. Oh, yeah, that was forbidden. But we applied reason to the data and a whole new perspective resulted. Yes we got angry and hurt as a result because this sudden new view of our world drew us to a single and depressing realization: WE HAD BEEN DUPED! According to relatively new studies in Consciousness, what we experienced was more than new information about the Watchtower. It was more than a paradigm shift.

    We were emerging into a new level of consciousness.

    We were emerging from what Jim Marion, in his book Death of the Mythic God, calls the mythic level of consciousness. Because we have arrived at this new perspective by assessing our belief system rationally, we have entered what he and philosopher Ken Wilber call the rational level of consciousness. While this state of consciousness is not actually above the others, it includes all other levels of consciousness preceding it. But the rational level has its limitations too. Concluding we now see everything clearly because we are more rational can itself become an obstacle to further growth. Can you relate to this topic? Do you want go further with it? jst2laws

  • frankiespeakin
    frankiespeakin

    Jst,

    Yeah I can relate, it is called enlightenment, not total but on the road to.

    But the rational level has its limitations too. Concluding we now see everything clearly because we are more rational can itself become an obstacle to further growth. Can you relate to this topic? Do you want go further with it?

    The mind is pretty much shall we say elastic. more information leads to a shift in the levels of perception and higher consciousness. And yes I am going further. They say the brain processes billions of pieces of information a second and we are (or average minds) only conscious of a few thousand. We can shift in awareness and shed light on(or become conscious of) more info the mind processes. Ive done it on Ketamine and Ayahuasca. Meditation also is a good aid in this.

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    Hi Steve,

    Sure I can relate, and am interested in going further.

    What I would question right now is the linear, "evolutionary" presentation (as if there were first a mythical, non-rational paradigm, then a rational, non-mythical one) -- whether it is understood as individual or collective progress. To me logos (= ratio)and mythos (= imaginary)are more like the two legs we walk on. While we rest on one we can move the other. Every new rational step calls for a reorganisation of our myths; every new configuration of our imaginary representations allows for further rational development.

    I don't think people of ancient civilisations were less rational than we are. I don't think I was any less rational as a JW than I am now. The difference rather lies, imho, in the data practically available for rational process (that which was objectively available, or that which we personally allowed to enter in the process). We cannot change rational paradigms unless relying strongly on some myth (whether religious "notions" as gods or faith, or more general ideas like truth, justice, freedom, love, which also function as myths). Hence I don't think we'll ever be past myth, or past reason for that matter.

  • frankiespeakin
    frankiespeakin

    Nark,

    We cannot change rational paradigms unless relying strongly on some myth (whether religious "notions" as gods or faith, or more general ideas like truth, justice, freedom, love, which also function as myths). Hence I don't think we'll ever be past myth, or past reason for that matter.

    I agree, we invent new myths to our changing world views, the current model of the atom is a myth, with its electron spinning around a nucleus composed of protons and neutrons is a myth that enables us to understand something about matter, it is not really like that but it is the best way we can understand matter is to date. We invent myths or pardigms as our understanding increases.

  • restrangled
    restrangled

    Yes, I can relate. I go back to my to my teenage eyes, seeing with that perspective.... instead of my parents vision for us. Not saying this was rational but we had a sense something was terribly wrong at the time. My brothers and I viewed the whole thing as archaic and stifling. None of us ever returned. None of my cousins ever returned. We hung on trying to make the irrational, rational......doesn't work.

    Some died trying to get their freedom, some went to jail, some served too many years as a JW and are just getting out, but suffered in silence for years. All are still paying one way or another......The Journey doesn't seem to end.

    Generation after generation continues to pay for this cults ideals, and stranglehold.......in one way or another.

    r.

  • jst2laws
    jst2laws

    Hello Frankiespeakin,

    "We can shift in awareness and shed light on(or become conscious of) more info the mind processes. Ive done it on Ketamine and Ayahuasca. Meditation also is a good aid in this."

    I can see I do not have to convince you that there are levels of consciousness beyond the rational. Yes, meditation is a great tool. I never thought of the orbiting electron/proton concept as a myth. You are absolutely right that it is not that way in actuality. I suspect Neils Bohr, I believe the mind behind the concept, grieved that his illustration was eventually taken as a literal manifestation of what happens inside the atom. That would be fun to talk about some time.

    Hello Narkissos,

    You intimidate me :-). I wouldn't argue that there is no rationality in the mythical, nor mythical in the rational. In fact the present US administration is an example of a basically rational society still dependent on its mythical consciousness. However, we may have to spend some time on your opinion that ancient civilisations were no "less rational than we are".

    I have more to post later on the general history of society's evolution from mythical to rational consciousness as these theorist and philosophers quoted above view it. But I have to head off to a class right now. May be a while before I can catch up to this. Hope you all have fun meanwhile.

    Steve

  • moshe
    moshe

    You're not alone Jst2laws.

    Many ex-JW's are comfortable in some part of orthodoxy and that is great. For me, I have been able to see the human equation in the Bible story. I converted to Judaism , to join a tribe and obtain the freedom to define God on my own terms. I have a community to share life's sucesses and sorrows with now and they don't judge Moshe for thinking outside the box about a Creator and the purpose of life. I told my then 18 yr old son ( never became a JW) in 1998 in answer to his question ' What is religion?"

    "Religion is a belief system to explain the unexplainable"- , I would today add that it is a constantly evolving belief system.

  • Big Tex
    Big Tex

    I've got nothing to add to this weighty topic. Just wanted to drop in and say howdy.

    Good to see you again Steve.

  • willyloman
    willyloman

    When I was a dub (just three years but a lifetime ago) I didn't not know the meaning of paradigm, nor could I comprehend a such a shift. But now I understand "paradigm shift" completely and, as Pee Wee Herman once said, "I don't have to see the movie, I lived it."

  • Seeker4
    Seeker4

    Ken Wilber's writings, in particular his A Brief History of Everything, A Theory of Everything, and his year's journal, One Taste, were hugely influential on me as I was leaving the Witnesses. Wilber was the first one to help me to see what was happening to me, that I was moving out of one level of consciousness and up to another whole level - or more.

    I wrote about this a lot on the old H2O, and we had some interesting discussions of it there.

    It also helps to explain why many leave the Witnesses and simply exchange it for another fundamentalist religion, or maybe a religion a little higher up the spiral of consciousness. There just exchanging one world view or level of consciousness and thinking for another, very similar one. I pissed some people off in describing that as crawling out of the gutter on one side of the road and then crawling into the gutter on the other side!

    I was just looking through my copy of A Theory of Everything, and like his other books I've got, it's full of my notes. In his chapter on the spiral of consciousness, next to his discussion of the Blue: Mythic Order, I've written "JWs and other fundies." Wilber was a great help to me in getting through all that - shifting your world view and level of consciousness is a huge thing in one's life. Most people never do.

    Glad you brought this back up. I still read Wilber some, but not like in the past. There are some good essays of his on-line as well. One I remember is about how people want their spiritual and philosophical leaders and teachers to be ball-less, powerful saints - spouting truths but living sexless - and how that can't be the case.

    Wilber is always good for churning the brain cells.

    Thanks - S4

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