thanks for replying.
I'll look out for that post.
bernadette
How often should the Lord's Supper be celebrated per year
by avidbiblereader 32 Replies latest watchtower bible
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abbagail
"But, even in the Catholic Church you can partake of the emblems daily if you so desire."
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Are Catholics really getting BOTH of the emblems? I haven't set foot in an RCC in numerous decades, but check this out...
This info is presented merely FYI, and not as an "argument" to the above quote, but this info blew me away when I first read it, because it never dawned on me even when we were Catholics as youngsters and taking communion all the time...
Consider this...
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MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT - CATHOLIC OR JEWISH?
<http://watch.pair.com/mystery-babylon.html>
[...]
ROMAN CATHOLICISM
[...]
WAFER-ONLY Communion (cf. Manna/Shew Bread)
[...]
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Note, it's WAFER-ONLY for the Catholics! Seems their doctrine has decided to leave out HALF of the scriptural admonition. I added my 2-cents about it here:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/THE_PARADISE_REPORTER/message/4036
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That "Wafer-Only" section is from a much longer detailed article:
MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT -- CATHOLIC OR JEWISH?
<http://watch.pair.com/mystery-babylon.html>
[...]
ROMAN CATHOLICISM
[...]
A listing of parallels between Roman Catholicism and Judaism...
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Absolutely fascinating info. Read it all to get the entire picture.
And I also posted that info here at my yahoogroup:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/THE_PARADISE_REPORTER/message/4033
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But back to the point about RCC communion: Just like the WT has the majority of JWs outright "rejecting" the body and blood of Christ (via communion), so the RCC has their members being "cheated" by their receiving the WAFER-ONLY (body of Christ) but NOT the wine (blood of Christ).
Oh sure, the RCC-priest gets to take the WINE as the MEDIATOR between the people and Jesus (which is an anti-scriptural farce similar to the WT), but the people themselves are only getting HALF of what they should be getting, ie, Bread AND Wine.
The "mother Church" (Catholic) even has the audacity to state:
[...]
(b) There is no Divine precept binding the laity or non-celebrating priests to receive the sacrament under both kinds (Trent, sess. XXI, c. i.)
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"Both Kinds" to the RCC means BREAD AND WINE.
And on that note, I am compelled to display the Apostle Paul's words to the ENTIRE Body of Believers:
1 Corinthians chapters 11
23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the [same] night in which he was betrayed took bread: 24 And when he had given thanks, he brake [it], and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. 25 After the same manner also [he took] the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink [it], in remembrance of me. 26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.
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If the above RCC quote wasn't bad enough, here's more from the same source... See if you can swallow this without choking...
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(d) In reference to the sacraments generally, apart from their substance, salva eorum substantia, i.e. apart from what has been strictly determined by Divine institution or precept, the Church has authority to determine or modify the rites and usages employed in their administration, according as she judges it expedient for the greater profit of the recipients or the better protections of the sacraments themselves against irreverence. Hence "although the usage of Communion under two kinds was not infrequent in the early ages [ab initio] of the Christian religion, yet, the custom in this respect having changed almost universally [latissime] in the course of time, holy mother the Church, mindful of her authority in the administration of the Sacraments, and influenced by weighty and just reasons, has approved the custom of communicating under one kind, and decreed it to have the force of a law, which may not be set aside or changed but by the Church's own authority" (Trent, Sess. XXI, c. ii). Not only, therefore, is Communion under both kinds not obligatory on the faithful, but the chalice is strictly forbidden by ecclesiastical law to any but the celebrating priest. These decrees of the Council of Trent were directed against the Reformers of the sixteenth century, who, on the strength of John, vi, 54, Matt., xxvi, 27, and Luke, xxii, 17, 19, enforced in most cases by a denial of the Real Presence and of the Sacrifice of the Mass, maintained the existence of a Divine precept obliging the faithful to receive under both kinds, and denounced the Catholic practice of withholding the cup from the laity as a sacrilegious mutilation of the sacrament.
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AND GOD BLESS 'EM FOR DOING SO!!
If you can stomach it, feel free to go to their RCC source here and read it the entire legal mumbo-jumbo theology:
Communion under Both Kinds
<http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04175a.htm>
Personally, I find it absolutely nauseating how warped the RCC is, but that's just me.
/abbagail -
kitten whiskers
This has been very interesting for me to read your comments everyone! I have really enjoyed it and have gotten a few new ideas on the subject that I have never thought of before! I especially was intriged by the comment of "not eating with such a man" connected to this and the love feasts. It was a great you all posted such thoughtful insights.Thank you for sharing.
Respectfully,
Kitten Whiskers
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truthsearcher
Another interesting thread that I will re-read to absorb the thoughts presented.
FYI, we have previously been involved in a Protestant denomination which celebrated the "breaking of the bread" on a weekly basis--they are the Plymouth Brethren. It was always a special time to remember the reason for our faith--the sacrifice of Christ for our personal sins. As a worship leader, I looked for ways to make it meaningful and not ritualistic.
We have also been involved with churches that celebrated monthly, but never yearly, as we understand it to be totally separate from the Passover.
I think that in Catholic theology, the idea of an on-going need to sacrifice, and sacramental theology whereby the recipient receives or earns a bit of salvation everytime they participate led to the daily practice of Mass.
I agree that the WT has succeeded in stripping its members of the opportunity to obey the Scriptures in this regard.
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Narkissos
abbagail,
Remember the Catholic Encyclopedia is one century old. If you are interested in what the Catholic church currently teaches and practices, see http://www.catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=5109 for instance.
Communion under both kinds, in one form or another, has been not only authorised but encouraged since Council of Vatican II. It is the rule in many French parishes.
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abbagail
Thanks Narkissos!
Glad to hear the RCC is "waking up" and "getting something right" -- after a few thousand years...
/abbagail -
truthsearcher
I just remembered that when I was attending a Catholic university, I liked to hang out with the seminary boys (thinking that those about to be priests would make good platonic friends...) Anyway, they did tell me some stories about getting drunk on the leftover communion wine...every day... Those were probably just high-spirited young 'uns but it didn't seem quite right to me!
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kid-A
And super-size my heavenly fries!!!!
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Leolaia
A new article on Polycarp and the Quartodecimans can be found here:
http://www.hypotyposeis.org/weblog/2007/01/epiphany-and-polycarp.html
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tmo1965
There is nothing in the Bible that states a specific time to take, communion, the eucharists, the Lord's Supper, or whatever your religion calls it. Based upon my research the early Christian church took the Lord's Supper every week. Here are some enlightening quotes from Justin Martyr from the 2nd century:
The following were taken from an apology of Justin Martyr (A.D. 110–165). Martyr is an early church father of the Christian religion. http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf01.viii.ii.lxvii.html
Chapter LXVII.—Weekly worship of the Christians.
And we afterwards continually remind each other of these things. And the wealthy among us help the needy; and we always keep together; and for all things wherewith we are supplied, we bless the Maker of all through His Son 186 Jesus Christ, and through the Holy Ghost. And on the day called Sunday,1913 all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability,1914 and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given,1915 and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succours the orphans and widows and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need. But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration.
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Justin Martyr's apology on the Eucharist (Holy Bread and Wine):
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf01.viii.ii.lxv.html
Chapter LXV.—Administration of the sacraments.
But we, after we have thus washed him who has been convinced and has assented to our teaching, bring him to the place where those who are called brethren are assembled, in order that we may offer hearty prayers in common for ourselves and for the baptized [illuminated] person, and for all others in every place, that we may be counted worthy, now that we have learned the truth, by our works also to be found good citizens and keepers of the commandments, so that we may be saved with an everlasting salvation. Having ended the prayers, we salute one another with a kiss.1908 There is then brought to the president of the brethren1909 bread and a cup of wine mixed with water; and he taking them, gives praise and glory to the Father of the universe, through the name of the Son and of the Holy Ghost, and offers thanks at considerable length for our being counted worthy to receive these things at His hands. And when he has concluded the prayers and thanksgivings, all the people present express their assent by saying Amen. This word Amen answers in the Hebrew language to ? ? ???t? [so be it]. And when the president has given thanks, and all the people have expressed their assent, those who are called by us deacons give to each of those present to partake of the bread and wine mixed wit h water over which the thanksgiving was pronounced, and to those who are absent they carry away a portion. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf01.viii.ii.lxvi.html
Chapter LXVI.—Of the Eucharist.
And this food is called among us ? ? ?a??st ? a1910 [the Eucharist], of which no one is allowed to partake but the man who believes that the thi ngs which we teach are true, and who has been washed with the washing that is for the remission of sins, and unto regeneration, and who is so living as Christ has enjoined. For not as common bread and common drink do we receive these; but in like manner as Jesus Christ our Saviour, having been made flesh by the Word of God, had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so likewise have we been taught that the food which is blessed by the prayer of His word, and from which our blood and flesh by transmutation are nourished, is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who was made flesh.1911 For the apostles, in the memoirs composed by them, which are called Gospels, have thus delivered unto us what was enjoined upon them; that Jesus took bread, and when He had given thanks, said, “This do ye in remembrance of Me,1912 this is My body;” and that, after the same manner, having taken the cup and given thanks, He said, “This is My blood;” and gave it to them alone. Which the wicked devils have imitated in the mysteries of Mithras, commanding the same thing to be done. For, that bread and a cup of water are placed with certain incantations in the mystic rites of one who is being initiated, you either know or can learn.
