The very notion of "divine" forgiveness is absurd in and of itself. The error of the premise stands alone and requires no dichotomous comparisons between different "brands" of the same, silly principle. What does not exist, CANNOT forgive you, and by extension, requires no penance. Here, the point ends.
WHY GOD CANNOT FORGIVE YOU
by Terry 53 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Terry
Personally, 'my imaginary friend (God) will forgive me' is just not good enough for me.
I have the exact same problem with PRAYER!!
Instead of actually DOING something constructive for a person in need the laggard says: I'LL PRAY FOR YOU.
In other words, the same reaching for the remote control button......zap! God does it instead of me.
Lazy bums pretending they accomplish great things just by mumbling with their eyes closed!
My usual reply to "I'll pray for you.." is this.
"Oh please, don't pray for me; dance the Hokey Pokey for me instead."
I get strange looks from that, but; at least I know they'll be doing SOMETHING.
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Terry
Side remark: I think Matthew 6, 18 and the like rather make Terry's point, at least on a superficial interpersonal level, as they actually require the victim to forgive the offender in order to be forgiven in turn. From a purely ethical standpoint this is scandalous -- and, I think, meant to sound so.
Thanks, Narkissos.
I suppose my point got lost in all my usual wordiness and side issues.
What I was trying to say was that reading the NT is specific to who is saying what. It is not de facto Christianity. Often times the speaker is Judaism's voice which today people read automatically as Christian.
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Terry
Forgivness is extended not for the benefit of the one being forgiven, but for the benefit of the forgiver. By forgiving some one of the wrong done to oneself, you relieve yourself of the burden of carrying a grudge. This opens a clear path for God's forgiveness in our lives.
It does not relieve the one who transgressed from the necessity of clearing his own account, by making up for the transgression.
Even an insurance company demarks a difference between the destruction of property willfully from accidentally.
If my neighbor backs his car out of the driveway and runs over my dog unintentionally the dog is dea. If he does it intentionally the dog is dead HOWEVER there is an added injury.
The forgiver and the forgiven must sort these things out.
Ultimately each of us decides what anything is worth to us by way of loss or damage and only we (as owners, lovers, family, etc.) are unique in our appraisal. That is what makes personal forgiveness so aptly just and equitable.
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Terry
Well, Terry, you chose to contrast Judaism (including the OT) and Christianity (including the NT) as if both of them were monolithic.
When people speak of our Judeo-Christian heritage that is exactly what they themselves are doing!
I am addressing the contemporary understanding of the Judeo-Christian legacy on our system of justice and forgiveness and contrasting the disparate source elements philosophically in order to show there IS NO Judeo-Christian heritage because the two are dissonant!
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Terry
The only answer I can think of, from a "mystical" standpoint which you probably won't like, is that "God" is not someone else ultimately.
Actually, I 100% agree with that psychologically!
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stevenyc
: The only answer I can think of, from a "mystical" standpoint which you probably won't like, is that "God" is not someone else ultimately.
I like this. It adds some reason to the forgiveness picture.
A person is never forgiven until they forgive themselves. Which is true.
steve -
Narkissos
What I was trying to say was that reading the NT is specific to who is saying what. It is not de facto Christianity. Often times the speaker is Judaism's voice which today people read automatically as Christian.
Another way to put it is that Judaism and Christianity have a lot of common as well as mutual contradictions
When we reduce "the essence of Christianity" to the pet teachings of one of its particular brands (e.g., popular American Protestantism) we tend to oversimplify and impoverish it dramatically. If all it is about is "salvation by grace through Jesus' sacrifice for our sins" then much of the NT sounds strangely "non-Christian". But it is only an optical illusion imo.
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Santisimo
Hey Terry:
If you're into Judaism that's great. Since leaving the J-Dubs I've been studying Judaism and very answers that the Org could never provide. Let me know if I can send a PM directly to you with questions. Thanks! -
Terry
Hey Terry:
If you're into Judaism that's great. Since leaving the J-Dubs I've been studying Judaism and very answers that the Org could never provide. Let me know if I can send a PM directly to you with questions. Thanks!I'm always available and my rates are reasonable. Birthdays, Bar Mitzvahs, bat mitzvahs, rodeos and Chinese seances. Post away, my friend, post away.