Islamic Violence not new.....

by Rex B13 42 Replies latest jw friends

  • AlanF
    AlanF

    Poor Rexie. Obviously I've hit a sore spot, since you're rising to new emotional heights. You can no longer manage even a semblance of cogent argument.

    : Simply put, you are a liar. You are either too stupid to understand the difference in teachings between the religious writngs

    This is gobble-de-goop. What the hell is "the difference in teachings between the religious writngs"? Perhaps you really mean to say, "the difference between what Christians say and what Christians practice"? Or perhaps, "the difference between what the Bible says and what most Christians practice"? Try to focus and be clear, Rexie. Otherwise you're just ranting. But you always do that, so why should this be different?

    : or you are a liar. We all know you aren't stupid, don't we?

    Some have said that. Few have said it about you, though.

    : Any comparison betweeen claimed Christians who violated the teachings of God's word and Islamic fundamentalists who are simply FOLLOWING THE TEACHINGS of their own sacred writings shows your lie.

    You have a serious problem understanding the Bible, Rexie. The Bible teaches not only by word, but by example. When the Crusaders went off and killed tens of thousands of "infidels", what were they following? Jesus' words about loving your neighbor, or the example set by God's people the Jews in killing tens of thousands to clear out the Promised Land? Is there any difference between the Conquistadors' killing thousands of pagan Indians in God's name and the Jews' killing thousands of Caananites in God's name? Not a bit. Both were justified as being religiously necessary. Of course, the fact that massive plundering of wealth and land might have had something to do with it is just a minor point.

    Or is it? Just remember that in both cases the conquerors wrote the history. Both thought they were doing God's will and both wrote their histories in those terms.

    In reality the motivations of the Conquistadors and the Jews were the same: to get land and plunder the wealth of the inhabitants and to kill them off. The justifications were the same: God wanted them to do it to further the religion of the conquerors. The histories were the same: "We killed to further the interests of God's kingdom and the fact that we succeeded proves that God backed us."

    Most of the laws the Jews had that said "be nice to others" were restricted to being nice to other Jews. Gentiles were fair game for killing unless they happened to live among the Jews and obey most of their laws. By the time Christianity came along none of the participants had any political power, so we have no idea how they might have acted had they got such power. But we get a pretty good idea by looking into Christian writings, where death and destruction on an apocalyptic scale are the norm. Do you even understand where the word "apocalyptic" comes from, Rexie? From "Apocalypse" or "Revelation", which book contains scenes that make what the Jews did look innocent.

    In reality the God of Islam and the God of the Bible are both war Gods, Gods who demand killing in his name when he commands it. Both the Bible and the Koran contain plenty of "be nice to your neighbor" stuff, in addition to the "kill apostates" stuff. The only difference among followers is how they interpret and apply the various aspects, and whether individuals decide that their particular God is speaking personally to them.

    : Where is the 'jihad', led by man on earth, Al baby?

    You're asking the wrong question, Rexie sweetie. The 'Bible God jihad' was in Caanan. A new one will be the killing of most of the human race in the near (according to Fundies and JWs) future (the Apocalypse doesn't specify when).

    : When are you going to quit lying about the life of Christ and the individual's resposibility to God for his actions while living on earth?

    Some Christians interpret the Bible to mean that they should avoid killing and should be nice to their neighbors. Others do not and historically have not. Many kinds of conduct can be justified by reference to the Bible.

    : You intentionally blame all Christians for the acts attributed to our basic depraved nature!

    Not at all. People of any faith or non-faith can be depraved. History proves that the "be nice" passages in the Bible are cast aside whenever the need arises. The founder of one of the foundations stones of modern fundamentalism, John Calvin, murdered people who did not accept his teachings. So did those paragons of Biblical morality, the Puritans. So have other "pure" Christians down through history. Do you reject Calvin for murdering people? No, you embrace him. You prove that modern day fundamentalists would just as easily kill people who disagree as did Calvin, the Puritans and plenty of other Christians who treat others according to the Golden Rule only so long as the others subscribe to their beliefs.

    : The fact that dweebs like you live in a free country and critisize the main religion in that country without fear speaks volumes to your lying slander.

    I've got news for you: the United States was not founded by Christians but by Deists. Deists reject the God of the Bible. It was the Deists and their supporters who put in place the freedoms we enjoy. Nor is the United States in any sense a Christian nation. Various Christian slogans that appear on money or wherever, various Christian practices of the past and present such as opening Congressional sessions with prayer, are mere window dressing designed to placate the Christians in government.

    Here's an illustration of how, in your blind haste to prove something, you contradict your yourself: you refer to Christianity as "the main religion" in the United States, yet your words above prove that you don't consider the majority of U.S. Christians to be Christian. You certainly don't consider the Catholic Church Christian, yet Catholics are the largest single Christian denomination. And if we embark upon a case by case examination of all other denominations, you'd reject the majority of them because they don't go along with all of the beliefs of the Southern Baptists. For example, various Protestant denominations such as the Methodists and Presbyterians have formally accepted a form of the dreaded "evolution", which you condemn belief in. Most Protestant denominations outright reject the young-earth creationism that is fundamental to Southern Baptist belief. As Henry Morris, himself a member of that denomination likes to say, Christians who don't accept YECism are counterfeit Christians. So, Rexie, how many "true Christians" does that leave in the U.S.? And let's see you tell us again, just what is the main religion in the U.S.?

    : Ah, but you were raised to be unappreciative of the deaths of Catholics and Protestants who died to keep your butt free, right Al baby?

    As a JW, of course. But of course, plenty of others besides Catholics and Protestants died to keep our butts free. Naturally, for you they don't count.

    : I suppose you would even march in protest of your country taking military action agains those responsible for the deaths in terrorist attacks, right?

    As a matter of fact, just Friday night I participated in a Red Cross benefit and for the first time in my life sang songs like the National Anthem. So even someone raised as a JW can become reasonable. There's even hope for you, Rexie. You just have to get rid of that fundamentalist, us-or-them, JW-style, exclusivist mindset and learn about things beyond the extremely narrow scope of Southern Baptism.

    AlanF

  • Cygnus
    Cygnus

    I have been instructed by several practicing Muslims that martyrdom by suicide is _condemned_ in the Koran, and that jihad refers to a war of _self-defense_. Jihads are not to be initiated by Islamic followers, but are in response to attacks made on them. I know of no such "public jihad" where lives are perpetually at stake.

    Also, Cal Thomas is a duplicitous idiot.

  • Norm
    Norm

    Hello again Rex,

    You said:

    In response to Norm Norwig's usual wide brush of generalization,that sweeps in all religion as causing all the problems of the world......

    Well Rex, why don’t you just try answering my questions instead of spouting all this incredible nonsense. How long are you going to dodge the real issue? Answer this:

    Could your God have prevented the WTC and Pentagon horror? If he could why didn't he? If he couldn't what does that make him? In any case what's the use of praying to him?

    Norm

  • Rex B13
    Rex B13

    Hi Farkel,
    Of course, Moses was not alive at the time. This hinges on the belief that the Bible is the inspired word of God. As you know, this is not provable. I can only tell you that I believe it so....due to the fact of the resurrection of Jesus Christ. That event confirms the Bible as the word of God, regardless of any objections at all.
    (That is why the secular converts use every means at their disposal to undermine this event. If they are wrong, then their very eternity is forfeit. Did you ever hear of Mortimer Adler? His conversion to Christianity would be something to study.)
    The apostle Paul turned from being a determined persecutor of Christians to the greatest evangelist for Christ. He had the backing of the witnesses still alive, as the resurrection account could be proven by upwards of 500 personal testimonies. He is a historical figure confirming the events of history. It is especially telling to see that the Jews never denied Jesus' miraculous powers. The best they could do was claim that he did his miracles by the power of Satan.
    Make no mistake about it, our Lord claimed equality with God. he was not 'just a man' or a 'good teacher' or even a 'prophet'. He was either God the son or a lunatic. I know and believe fully, in my heart, under the power of the Holy Spirit (whom I see in my life and the lives of others) that Jesus Christ was God and man...still is.
    I know that that doesn't amount to a 'hill of beans' to anyone else but then my goal is not to be 'popular', 'respected' or whatever. My sole purpose is to preach that 'heaven's glory and hell's hot'.
    Later,
    Rex

  • jelly
    jelly

    I don’t think the problem is either Islam or Christianity; both have engaged in f**ked up activities at one time or another, and both have done many good things too. It’s when you radicalize those beliefs. Basically the problem is when people have such radical beliefs they believe anything is justified in order to bring about their view of a ‘just world’.

    Jelly

  • Abaddon
    Abaddon

    I love the way our local Christo-nazi seizes anything which will support his prejudiced little world view. Roll on the Christ-Reich, eh Rex? Taking those rabies shots I hope. Good boy!! Woof! Re-arrange these words into a well known phrase or sentence;

    Mad

    Barking

    Not too difficult I hope.

    Whoops, I am using old ad hominum again. But you are akin to the boy with the sign saying 'kick me' on his back walking around school. Except you write the sign yourself and carry it on a banner. Go figure.

    Of course, one wonders the moral integrity and intellectual honesty of someone who will just ignore;

    1/ The Crusades

    2/ Centuries long persectuion of Jews by Christians (mostly Islam was very tolerant in this period to Jews).

    3/ Centuries long internal barbarism in Christian countries, burning people they disagreed with.

    4/ Political manipulation within Christian countries by Christians and war-mongering against other Christian countries.

    Simple fact; some Islamic countries are less politically and socially developed than most 'Christian' countries (although there are very few 'Christian' countries really, if you count a 'Christian' country as one where two-thirds regulary attend Church).

    This is just historical happen-chance; it was reversed a thousand years or so years ago when Christian Europe was in the Dark Ages and Islamic countires looked down their noses at us, as SOME PEOPLE now tend to do at them from an uneducated implicitly racist attitudinal point-of-view.

    It has no moral value or possibility of superiority being assigned to it. The 'faults' of Islam are more or less the same as the 'faults' of Christianity; Christianity has shown itself equally partial to excess as Islam. In time history shows moderation rules. Islam isn't as old as Christianity. Do the maths and don't be such an ass.

    Oh, this was wonderful, talk about a house of cards;

    "This hinges on the belief that the Bible is the inspired word of God. As you know, this is not provable."

    Oh my god, I agree with Rex... oh, no, hold on...

    "I can only tell you that I believe it so....due to the fact of the resurrection of Jesus Christ. That event confirms the Bible as the word of God, regardless of any objections at all."

    BUT Rexy my little attack-trained woofy (we have Fred Hall as cat and Rex as dog), Jesus' ressurection is not provable either.

    I don't care what manisfestations you have had in your personal life, or what your freaking testimony is. It's subjective and non-verifiable.

    In a handful of sentences you place yourself on the same level as someone who blames every light-bulb that blows in their house for a period of eighteen months after their grandfather's death on his 'spirit'.

    Thank you and goodnight!

    Keep on rocking in the free world...

  • Norm
    Norm

    Rex,

    You said:

    Of course, Moses was not alive at the time. This hinges on the belief that the Bible is the inspired word of God. As you know, this is not provable. I can only tell you that I believe it so....due to the fact of the resurrection of Jesus Christ. That event confirms the Bible as the word of God, regardless of any objections at all.

    Wow Rex! What a progress, it is all something you believe, that’s great, good to have that clear. Then you screw up royally by this sentence: “ due to the fact of the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

    What FACT are you talking about here, Rex? Jesus resurrection is a FACT? Well, it ranges right up there with the FACT that Moses wrote about his own funeral. You have a strange and twisted idea of what constitutes a fact Rex, no wonder you are confused.

    Then follows some more unbelievable far fetched nonsense:

    The apostle Paul turned from being a determined persecutor of Christians to the greatest evangelist for Christ. He had the backing of the witnesses still alive, as the resurrection account could be proven by upwards of 500 personal testimonies. He is a historical figure confirming the events of history. It is especially telling to see that the Jews never denied Jesus' miraculous powers. The best they could do was claim that he did his miracles by the power of Satan.

    The above doesn’t even qualify as hearsay Rex; it “proves” absolutely nothing. In Sweden they have court records from the witch processes where there are hundreds of “eye” witnesses to “witches” flying away on broomsticks and consorting with the devil etc. Hundreds of these “eye” witnesses had of course met the devil personally too. Today we all know what a superstitious mind can produce.

    Make no mistake about it, our Lord claimed equality with God. he was not 'just a man' or a 'good teacher' or even a 'prophet'. He was either God the son or a lunatic. I know and believe fully, in my heart, under the power of the Holy Spirit (whom I see in my life and the lives of others) that Jesus Christ was God and man...still is.
    I know that that doesn't amount to a 'hill of beans' to anyone else but then my goal is not to be 'popular', 'respected' or whatever. My sole purpose is to preach that 'heaven's glory and hell's hot'.

    Later,
    Rex

    Thank you for explaining some of you recent superstitious delusions for us in detail Rex, most educating. I am glad you keep a little opening for the possibility that Jesus might have been a lunatic, be that as it may but I must say that you seem to be working extremely had towards that goal yourself these days. Even as a fire and brimstone preacher you aren’t very good. But with your Choice of Gods I guess it is only natural.

    Norm.

  • Kent
    Kent

    As usual, Rex has no contact what so ever with the ground.

    Just think, Norm. If one of those wonderful arab regimes has a medium range missle, tipped with a nuke and America was not interested in protecting your big butt, you could be in for a world of hurt. You and the rest of Europe.

    Actually, the only assholes who ever dropped a nuke in the head of innocent people were Americans, and don't you fuckin' forget that! They were no bleeding Arabs, and no matter what you try to insinuate - they didn't do that thing.

    As for Israel, they're THE country international who has supported terrorism since the start. They're THE terrorists, in fact.

    They call the Palestinians "terrorists" - and why? Because the Palestinians actually defend their territory against an aggressor! If some Cuban force invaded Texas, tell me what Texan you would accuse of being a terrorist because he shot some Cubans!

    Then, tell me why you feel the Palestinians have less rights than the Texans!

    For some reason, the more "Christian", the more "religious" - the less respect I have for people.

    Islamic Violence not new? Read your fuckin history, and you will find it was the Christians who started it all - with their crucades to kill Muslims!

    Yakki Da

    Kent

    I need more BOE letters, KMs and other material. Those who can send it to me - please do! The new section will be interesting!!

    Daily News On The Watchtower and the Jehovah's Witnesses:
    http://watchtower.observer.org

  • Julie
    Julie

    Cygnus,

    :Also, Cal Thomas is a duplicitous idiot.

    Precisely!

    Good thread, too bad it'll probably die here--knowing Rex as I do.

    To your health Rex, may you get a little better every day--
    Julie

  • Utopian Reformist
    Utopian Reformist

    It is amazing to me how sanctimonious fundamentalists become under scrutiny.

    In order to falsely promote a so-called genuine spirit of christian love, many Americans are now embracing their domestic islamic neighbors. In a subliminal air of superiority, they seek to demonstrate the fine qualities of western christianity as it is now publicly practiced as never before, even by government officials.

    This subtle movement to quietly elevate popular thinking through "God Bless America" as simple patriotism and comfort is not transparent to students of world history.

    America, friend of the world, crusader of justice, defender of liberty and truth, will now rid the world of terrorist(islamic) evil!
    Along with her traditional christian european allies, we will now embark on a clandestine modern-day digital and financial crusade to restrain islamic fundamentalist expanionism.

    History repeats itself primarily due to the corrupt, superstitious, racial, avaristic and ravenous appetites of religious political leaders. There is no marked difference from one nation or from one particular religion to another, if humans are at the core, then the same desires and traits will surface and manifest themselves to the detriment of others.

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