I am glad I saw this thread because I was reading Eph. 2:11-22 and could not help but make a connection to John 10:16 and the "Other Sheep" am I being obtuse.
Two Classes?
by VanillaMocha73 26 Replies latest watchtower bible
-
-
avidbiblereader
Interpretation belongs to God as Peter said and as you allow Him to open your mind and heart it really starts to make sense the way He said it. It really starts to fit together with a clear mind.
abr
-
unbaptized
Hello Hellrider,
You said, Do you have to have subjects to be a king or priest? And who says that everyone in heaven will be kings and priests?
Yes, you have to have subjects to be a King or Priest. One of the roles of a King is to judge, how can he judge when there is no one to judge? As a Priest he is to pray on behalf of the people for their sins before God, how can he pray on someone's behalf if there is no one to pray for?
To answer that other question, What other reason would they be asked to go to Heaven. Revelations 20:4-6
I have a question for you, when God had his arrangement set up with ancient Israel, how many priest did he elect to office? Who was qualified to be a Priest? How were the true Kings in Israel chosen? Could anyone who felt they had the right to be a King or Priest become a King or Priest?
I need some answers to these questions.
-
Narkissos
I was reading Eph. 2:11-22 and could not help but make a connection to John 10:16 and the "Other Sheep" am I being obtuse.
No, you are perfectly right: the same pattern of 2 --> 1 (contrary to the WT interpretation), applied to Jews and Gentiles merging into the one church/body/temple... Ephesians has a number of verbal and conceptual parallels with the Gospel and the epistles of John, which is not very surprising as tradition links Johannism to the same region, i.e. Asia Minor.
-
VanillaMocha73
Unbaptized:
The Bible to me clearly states that we (Christians) are ALL chosen:
"But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light." - 1 Peter 2:9 (NIV)
It says nothing about being a ruling race here, or that we are going to be somehow superior. Rather, that we are chosen to declare the praises of God. That speaks volumes to me. Stepping away from the 2 class mentality of a ruling vs. ruled, we are all under God's rulership and He chose us to bring praise to Him, to belong to Him.
The Israelite people did have a priestly class as ordained by God, to picture Jesus. God did not start out giving them an earthly king - they chose that for themselves. This does not match Christian's position today. We have no need to carry on with a priestly class - Jesus took that barrier away by his death. -
Hellrider
Unbaptised:
How were the true Kings in Israel chosen? Could anyone who felt they had the right to be a King or Priest become a King or Priest?
No. But that is what the socalled "annointed" among the jws, do. A jw one day suddenly "feels" that he belongs in heaven, ruling over mankind with God, and voilà, there you go (well, it`s harder for "annointed jws" these days, but this is at least how it used to work, and, to a certain extent, still works). Who is it that gives these guys (of which there are now approximately 8000 left, I believe) the right to say that they feel they have Gods spirit, whereas others do not have this right?
As for your view that to be a king or priest, you have to have subjects: In my opinion, the passages that refer to christians that will rule in heaven as kings or priests, probably refers to people of that time, people that were killed for their christian beliefs by the romans. To the rest of christianity, these passages are not problematic: The martyrs that died in the arenas almost 2000 years ago, have been in heaven ever since. An extended view is also possible, that it refers to all christians (that have died). They are now in heaven with Christ. Some day they will come back. And Gods throne will descend from heaven, Jerusalem will be restored, and God will rule among men, on earth. No problem. The only view that doesn`t work, is the view that 1850 years after Jesus Christ died, a wheat-salesman living on a continent that the early christians didn`t even know about, would establish a sect with the "true doctrines", and a 144 000 of his followers would go to heaven, while the rest would be on earth, ruled by the 144000. The problem jws have when thinking about these things, is that they have been trained to think in terms of "organisation". Like it has to be an organisation. Isn`t God allmighty? Isn`t Jesus? (by the power of his father). Why would they need a "government" at all? When the Bible uses the terms "priests" and "kings" about christians going to heaven, I don`t see any problem with this. Compared to the people here on earth, and compared to the ones that killed the christian (if we are talking early christians here), the christian in heaven is king. His violent enemies, those that persecuted him are left here on earth, while he himself is in heaven, in glory. So he is a king, or a priest. These words, "kings" and "priests" are not meant to be literal, they are honorary titles, used on people that followed, and died, in Christ.
-
VanillaMocha73
Hellrider: Exactly. And also, since the earth is supposed to go back to Garden of Eden conditions - did God have a "king and priest" class ruling over Adam and Eve? Wasn't God their King?