by Amazing 44 Replies latest jw friends
Terry:
The interesting thing about personal experience is that it is entirely subjective and beyond verifying by others.You phrase that like it's a bad thing...
Interestingly, while such experiences might be subjective they are also compellingly similar.
You mean like Alien abductions and Elvis sightings?
Terry:
The interesting thing about personal experience is that it is entirely subjective and beyond verifying by others.You phrase that like it's a bad thing...
Interestingly, while such experiences might be subjective they are also compellingly similar.
You mean like Alien abductions and Elvis sightings?
True to a point ... if we are prone to 'give love in exchange' for something. The person of faith who is truly spiritual gives love, expecting nor seeking anything in return. The person of faith does not prove his/her love ... they simply live it and experience it
I guess I've only met persons of faith who expect something in return for their worship like, healing, everlasting life, heaven, etc.
Proving one's love is testing one's one's faith. Seems to me I recall that as being considered a good thing in scripture. (i.e. Keep testing whether you are in the faith; keep proving what you yourselves are.)
So-called "unconditional love" would be a travesty. Why? It would be unjust. Showering love on a person who did not deserve it would constitute waste; like giving money to a spendthrift.
Tossing pearls before swine is, as I recall, considered a bad thing to do.
Faith and love need definition or else they are just floating concepts and can mean anything at all at anytime to anybody anywhere. Look at the "faithful" Muslim terrorists who blow themselves up or the "faithful" Christians of past wars.
Terry:
You mean like Alien abductions and Elvis sightings?
LOL
I guess I've only met persons of faith who expect something in return for their worship like, healing, everlasting life, heaven, etc.
But, but, but, we've met...
Hi Terry,
I guess I've only met persons of faith who expect something in return for their worship like, healing, everlasting life, heaven, etc. ... Proving one's love is testing one's one's faith. Seems to me I recall that as being considered a good thing in scripture. (i.e. Keep testing whether you are in the faith; keep proving what you yourselves are.)
While there is some truth to what you stated, the phrasology you used comes comes from the NWT. You may find that the KJV, NIV, etc. provided a more balanced rendering. The Society will always select the phrasing that places the load on people, but misses the thrust of the text. The concept of expecting something in return for worship, or faith, or love is almost strictly a JW teaching. In their world, one works hard for God so that God will grant one everlasting life in Paradise.
So-called "unconditional love" would be a travesty. Why? It would be unjust. Showering love on a person who did not deserve it would constitute waste; like giving money to a spendthrift. ... Tossing pearls before swine is, as I recall, considered a bad thing to do.
In that case, Jesus Christ should have stayed in heaven and written us off ... because we really did not deserve God's love and sacrifice. The Society translate it as God's "undeserved kindness" which makes the point ... but, the preferred translation in most Bibles speaks of God's grace. Both mean the same, but grace packs a better punch.
Faith and love need definition or else they are just floating concepts and can mean anything at all at anytime to anybody anywhere. Look at the "faithful" Muslim terrorists who blow themselves up or the "faithful" Christians of past wars.
Not sure what you mean or how this is relevant to why I have faith in God. I would never blow myself up and harm others just to get 72 virgins and kill enemies. I might sacrifice my life to protect others in immitation of Christ. Nothing in my commentary suggest an undefined or floating definition of love.
With respect to unconditional love, giveing it is never a waste. Love is not a commodity like money that we dole out by measure and use it to barter for what we want. If that were the case, then we would no love those who have nothing to give in return, because they would only spnd our love and not give back. Jesus said to show love and NOT expect anything in return. That is the test of genuine love, verses the phoeny kind that only seeks its own interests.
Jim Whitney
Very, very nice post, Jim.
not the kind of false spirituality that drives JWs to go door-to-door ... but the kind that knows God exist, is real, and allows us to become part of the Divine world.
Could it be that all already is "of the Divine world"? and that it is in fact impossible to be separate or absent from It? Could it be that rather than being in some ways limited and circumscribable -- as your beliefs imply -- that in reality what the word G-O-D points to has absolutely no beginning and no end?
Is the true God so small that we need to believe and have faith in order to become part of a "Divine world" where those who do not believe are coldly absent? Or is it all a delusional ego trip?
Is God less, or more?
j
Jim,
Your last comments are very well stated.
James thomas,
very interesting thought. Lilly
James makes a good point, that if placed in a Christian theological frame would simply ask "where does God's omnipresence end?"
Hi Jim,
Enjoyed your 'Post' and look forward to Number 2.
Personal testimony and experiences with God by individuals, far outweigh doctrional arguments which are very devisive and open to interpretation.
Outaservice
I guess I've only met persons of faith who expect something in return for their worship like, healing, everlasting life, heaven, etc.But, but, but, we've met...
Ahhhhggg! That's true!
I retract. I was wrong.
