Is Jesus becoming less relevant - even to Christians?

by nicolaou 53 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  nicolaou

  One thing many JW's could do was quote Jesus, although whether or not they lived up to the so-called 'christian ideal' is questioned by most of us. Conversely, many others who call themselves christians are much nicer people! They love, they are generous, charitable and willing to give - but they are unlikely to be as familiar as we are with the details of Jesus life and ministry as recorded in the Bible.

  I don't have a problem with that, it's what people do that matters!

  But there's my point. Isn't Jesus becoming less and less relevant? The vicar or priest may focus on his compassion or humility once a week but the point is that a moral lesson has been taught. Is Jesus simply becoming a vehicle for this moral education?

  Then you have people like Carl Sagan and Richard Dawkins who promote a very moral and philanthropic approach to life that is completely divorced from Jesus - but it still works.

  As time meanders onwards, will Jesus still be relevant in the year 3000?
• 

  reneeisorym

  I disagree. I hear a lot about Jesus and what he did. We have lessons in his life and ministry. Last year I was assigned to read the book of John before December. Most of the focus is how that Jesus paid the penalty for our sins. So, I disagree. Jesus is the main subject always in my Baptist church.
• 

  Narkissos

  Interesting topic.

  I think the Gospels' Jesus is an icon which exceeds whatever "meaning" may be ascribed to it -- whether moral, doctrinal, ideological, you name it. He works as an appeal figure against whatever totalitarian thought takes him as its "basis". My guess is that he will "come back" many times under different aspects, as he did in Christian history.
• 

  tetrapod.sapien

  i would say that jesus, as the person christians believe he is/was, has been irrelevant since the first moment that someone liberated themselves from him. since someone said, "no, the things you said are not divine."

  you see, jesus is not the vehicle of christianity. he is a result of it.

  if christianity cannot evolve fast enough, culturally/technically, then it in itself becomes obsolete because of the very nature of what it proposses to be: the omnimax divine. if christianity (and jesus by extension) was truly omnimax divine, i would not be here saying that jesus is irrelevant.

  when *any* anima machina rejects this concept of christian "free will" and "pity" as self defeating, she has immediately nullified the omnimax divine proclamation of christianity. not to say that christianity ceases to exist. it may still for centuries to come. but she has transcended that of even its highest so-called "virtue".

  as far as christians are concerned; the fact that they even still worship him as divine omnimax shows that he is irrelevant imo. if he had done his supposed job with the integrety that his followers said he did it, there would be no more followers of christ-ianity.

  the standard reply to the above is: "well, tetra, how can you suppose to even know the greatness and glory of jesus the christ?"

  and my only reply would be, "well, it takes one to know one. and he was nothing special as i am nothing special. he was special as i am special."

  sacrilegious? if it is, then my only question is: WHY?

  tetragod
• 

  RAF

  Tetra :

  and my only reply would be, "well, it takes one to know one. and he was nothing special as i am nothing special. he was special as i am special."

  sacrilegious? if it is, then my only question is: WHY?

  Well I don't think that Jesus Christ (any way you can see him or can't see him) do really care about that : Matthew 12:30-33 because it's not what really matter to him and that's already something DIVINE ...
• 

  Deputy Dog

  nic

  Isn't Jesus becoming less and less relevant?

  Well, I don't know what "Christians" you're talking about, but for the average JW, Jesus is of no value at all. They, (as well as any others who believe they can save themselves) don't need Him.

  Then you have people like Carl Sagan and Richard Dawkins who promote a very moral and philanthropic approach to life that is completely divorced from Jesus - but it still works.

  They believe they have their own (self) righteousness! Without Christ, that's all you have, "self" righteousness.

  Gal 5:4

  Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law (moral teachings); ye are fallen from grace.

  but they are unlikely to be as familiar as we are with the details of Jesus life and ministry as recorded in the Bible.

  They aren't really as familiar as you think with the details of Jesus' life. They only know what the ORG tells them. Those of us that believe we have no righteousness of our own, will always need His righteousness to have peace with God. For us, His blood will never loose it's power. He will always be our focus!
• 

  JamesThomas

  In order to raise one man to a pinnacle of holiness requires lowering the entire rest of the universe. This is a very high price to pay for a personal little deity, and perhaps, just perhaps, more and more are beginning to realize it.....if even subconsciously.

  j
• 

  tetrapod.sapien

  Well I don't think that Jesus Christ (any way you can see him or can't see him) do really care about that : Matthew 12:30-33 because it's not what really matter to him and that's already something DIVINE ...

  hi RAF,

  so, you speak for Jesus or for Matthew?

  tetra
• 

  RAF

  hi RAF,

  so, you speak for Jesus or for Matthew?

  tetra

  In saying that it is DIVINE already ?I speak for my heart ... as for mattew it's all about what is credible about what is DIVIN/CHRIST to me (all cultural missunderstanding aside).

  Tetra, you have the right to believe what you believe (just like I do) ... there is nothing wrong with that I even think I understand your whys as you seem to think you understand my whys ... everything is ok ... we have no reason to fight about that ... I'm not trying to convince you ... but if you state something and that I do no agree with you I guess I have the freedom to speak.

  I've read a lot of your posts you look like a nice guy (and you know why I think that) ... I have nothing against you ... but something is telling me that from a post we have opened our mouthes a bit too loud (one to each other) and since then it's like there is something to prove ... but there is nothing to prove, we can't go farest than that : You believe what you want to believe just like I do. It doesn't make me feel that you are stupid (I can read that you are not) do you think I'm stupid? ... Well ... that would be your right anyway I won't be able to fight against that neither even want to fight against that ... Why then?
• 

  LittleToe

  Nic:
  When were you last in a church to know what they teach?

  There is a huge gulf of a difference between a nominal, go-to-church-on-Sunday adherent to a denomination; and someone who claims a personal relationship with Christ. For the latter the whole concept of this thread is imbecilic. It would be like saying "Nic, I really enjoy corresponding with you and want to keep on doing so, but you are becoming less relevant to me!". WTF???

  I do accept that in many quarters "Christianity" is becoming less relevant to society in general, but that's another story. You appear to be attempting to address an internal dynamic to which you aren't privvy due to your own exclusion. It's a bit like an ne'er-been-a-JW claiming to know what it feels like to be a JW and exJW; or a single childless person claiming to understand what it's like to lose a child or suffer a divorce - aint gonna happen unless they've walked a mile in those shoes.