I have been semi-pro for 20 years in music.
I have studied music history for 27 years, off and on.
For example, I know more about bluegrass music history than the average Joe on the street.
But not as much as an music ethnologist, or some professor.
Anyway:
In general, people are entitled to a basic opinion on something.
Example: I think vanilla ice cream is better than chocolate.
Most people would disagree. We could argue about that.
Whether you like rap or not is a general opinion. Whether it is music or not is out of that realm, and
it is pointless to argue facts. It is pointless for me to argue with someone who
has not learned the history of rap music.
Rap is a musical artform. It really isn't up for debate. Rap fits the definition of music.
mu·sic (myu'zik)
n.
1. The art of arranging sounds in time so as to produce a continuous, unified, and evocative composition, as through melody, harmony, rhythm, and timbre.
Whether you like it or not. Just like some people hate modern art. But it still is art. It just usually sucks.
http://www.b-boys.com/classic/hiphoptimeline.html
Kenny Drew On Modern Black American Popular Music.
by hillary_step 48 Replies latest social entertainment
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MadTiger
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MsMcDucket
Musical genres in the Western tradition include:
- Pop and popular music
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MsMcDucket
Hilary, I don't need a history book to tell me that something IS music to my ears.
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MadTiger
Good post, Ms. Everyone will not have the same amount of love for all the different genres out there. No big deal. Many genres in pop music have been debased, tarnished, bastardized, adulterated, etc. to the point where there are only a few good artists with integrity in the genres.
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sixsixsixtynine
H-Step,
:: The innovators, and of course even rap, hip-hop, whatever you call it had its early innovators, but as money and corporations enter the fray they rely on the tried and tested ignorance of the young to feed the coffers. That is why I state that rap is not music, it is a style.
The same was said about every other musical genre of the last century. Rock-n-Roll was just a fad, just a buch of hoodlums with pompadours and switchblades. Jazz was about smoking reefer, wearing berets, and 'like talkin' crazy man!'. Punk rock was mainly about safety pins, mohawks and being shocking. All of them were eventually accepted, and then exploited by record companies. No different with Hip-Hop.
As far as whether or not it's bringing down the black community, who's to say? I tend to agree with Ms. McDucket, 'When were they ever up?'.
Although I find most of the popular examples of the music offensive on both an artistic and social level, statements like 'Rap Sucks' only come from squares and/or old people. If you don't like it fine. But trying to argue that it's not music and of no value is silly. -
MadTiger
Example of an argument:
Rap is a modern adaptation of talking blues, which was first recorded
in 1926 by this guy:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1120459
, NOT by Bob Dylan in "Subterranean Homesick Blues" in the 60s, LOL!
By reading the timeline link I provided in an above post, you can see
how it has evolved over the years. -
gaiagirl
Kenny makes some good points regarding rap 'music'. I can think of a mere handful of positive rap songs, for example some of Will Smiths body of work, or perhaps Imani Coppola, among others. The very best example of rap music I ever heard was 'Rapture' by Blondie, innovative and clever at the same time. As for the vast majority of rap, I think it proves that some cultures fail to socially evolve, and rather DE-volve. Rap music in general (with a pittance of exceptions) glorifies this devolution.
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hillary_step
MadTiger,
If someone has more music experience than me, then I'll argue with them. Otherwise, it's not really up for debate.
In general, people are entitled to a basic opinion on something.
Well, it seems that the left and right side of your brain are wrestling for their lives judging from the diachotony in those two remarks.
Strangely enough I do accept that those with musical credentials like Lowden have more of an understanding of the issues at hand. Kenny drew Jnr, quoted at the head of this thread is also a musician with strong views against Rap, which he supported with experience and evidence.
Where do you disagree with him when he defined the conventional definition of what music is and contrasted this with rap?
Sixo,
The same was said about every other musical genre of the last century. Rock-n-Roll was just a fad, just a buch of hoodlums with pompadours and switchblades. Jazz was about smoking reefer, wearing berets, and 'like talkin' crazy man!'. Punk rock was mainly about safety pins, mohawks and being shocking.
I would very vehemently disagree with you here. Jazz music is not a 'style' in the same sense that imho Rap is, neither is rock, country music, folk music, classical music, progressive rock etc. It is an idiom.
Rap is dependent on a certain style, various finger gyrations, a certain style of dancing, charming lyrics etc. There is a difference here, rap is not about music, it is about lifestyle. Punk music was a style too, it was a style that the recording companies massaged into an idiom when they realized that money was to be made, and that is the point that I made above. Even the best of the bands, could barely tune a guitar when they were first put on tapes, it was not just about music, it was about a fashion of thinking and in this way Punk music resembled Rap.
To suggest that you can or could identify a jazz musician by a beret and reefer is ridiculous, where do you get this from? I know numerous jazz musicans personally and very few fit or ever fitted this cliche. Stan Getz looks like my Bank manager, Art Tatum does not. Don Rendell, now in his eighties and still blowing the leaves from the trees is a Jehovah's Witness. One of my close friends is a 72 year old drummer and worked with Kenton, Thad Jones etc for years and refuses to tour in bands that have a history of junked up players. Never seen him in a beret, especially in his earlier days.
All of them were eventually accepted, and then exploited by record companies. No different with Hip-Hop.
Not true where it comes to Jazz, folk, blues and early rock. Small labels made up of believers started the ball rolling, then corporations, most of whom in the 50's, 60's and 70's had little creative input, leaving this to the performers, established the recording empires. In the past two decades things have changed dramatically. An argument can be made that it only is in this modern corporate soil, focused on nothing but money, that 'plants' like Rap can grow.
HS
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MsMcDucket
Blacks are use to certain Whites not liking things that we like. We just don't understand why you hate it to the point that you'd make up false claims in order to make a point. Or why that you'd try to take away something we like because you don't like it.
Let's say "it's not music". Now, what do you want? You want us to stop listening to it? Do you want the army to come to our doors and break all of our records?
Do you think doing that will make the world a nice and peaceful place. . .cure AIDS? I can't understand what the big deal is?
Are you really concerned about Black youth? Or do you want to argue about apples and oranges?
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hillary_step
MsMcDucket,
Blacks are use to certain Whites not liking things that we like. We just don't understand why you hate it to the point that you'd make up false claims in order to make a point. Or why that you'd try to take away something we like because you don't like it.
Kenny Drew is Black. Not only that, but his father was a Jazz pianist of world fame. Kenny Drew is a Jazz and Classical pianist of world fame. It his his views that we are discussing, not mine.
Let's say "it's not music". Now, what do you want? You want us to stop listening to it? Do you want the army to come to our doors and break all of our records?
Now I know for sure that you posted to this thread without even reading the opening post. Go back and read it, until then there is no point continuing this discussion with you.
HS
HS