Kenny Drew On Modern Black American Popular Music.

by hillary_step 48 Replies latest social entertainment

• 

  hillary_step

  MadTiger,

  Rap is a modern adaptation of talking blues, which was first recorded
  in 1926 by this guy:
  
  http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1120459

  LOL....that is about as long a stretch in 'argument' that I have heard in a long while. I see you believe in quantum leaps.

  In order to substantiate a claim like this you would need more than make a statement. Try joining a musical few dots and see where it leads. Perhaps you might claim that Rap is actually a modern adaptation of the talking jester, lute in hand, at the Court of Henry VIII.

  It might seem strange to some who are trying to play the race card here, that the largest audience for Rap are white American youths. Norman Mailer first identified the pehenomena of the 'white negro' way back in the 50's.

  Rap is more than 'talking blues'. It is a manufactured cultural identity, and one that unlike the Blues and Jazz has not imho uplifted the cause of its people. I leave you with the finely honed, and beautifully balanced words of one Snoopy-Something-Or-The-Other. I am sure these words will pluck at the romatic heartstrings of MsMcDucket :

  I have never met a girl
  that I loved in the whole wide world.
  Well if [I] gave a fuck about a bitch
  I'd always be broke,
  I'd never have no motherfuckin' Indo to smoke . . .
  I have no love for her,
  that's something that I had in the past,
  you're just the latest 'ho.
  
  Now that pussy's mine,
  so I'll fuck it a couple mo times,
  and then I'm through with it,
  there's nothing else to do with it,
  pass it to the homies . . .
  It ain't no fun
  if the homies can't have none

  I bet the 'homies' can't wait!

  HS
• 

  sixsixsixtynine

  H-Dogg,
  
  :: To suggest that you can or could identify a jazz musician by a beret and reefer is ridiculous, where do you get this from? I know numerous jazz musicans personally and very few fit or ever fitted this cliche.
  
  Sorry, I didn't make myself clear. No, I personally don't equate Jazz with reefer and berets.
  I was trying to make the point that all new styles of music are initially written off as fads and not considered 'legitimate' music.
  
  Every new genre of music grows out of a 'scene' that carries with it a style, and lifestyle. Rockabilly, Country, Jazz, Blues, Doo-Wop, Reggae, Punk, New Wave. None of these were just about the music, they all had a style and attitude that went with them. But that doesn't make them any less valid as music. All of them were started by people trying to express themselves with whatever tools and abilities they had. Isn't that what makes REAL music? That's the same spirit that hip-hop was born out of. Do yourself a favor and read about the origins of rap and the B-Boy scene in New York. There's alot more to it than the pimp cups, ho's, and 20" rims that you mostly see today.
  
  It's a mistake to think that 'rap is not about music, it is about lifestyle', just because many of the most popular performers appear that way. Look at this way: Who's more popular, Kenny Drew or Kenny G?
  Should all of Jazz music past to present be judged by the recordings of Mr. G and his smooth jazz brethren, just because they're the most popular? Wouldn't you suggest to someone that they dig a little deeper before passing judgement?
  
  :: Not true where it comes to Jazz, folk, blues and early rock. Small labels made up of believers started the ball rolling, then corporations, most of whom in the 50's, 60's and 70's had little creative input, leaving this to the performers, established the recording empires. In the past two decades things have changed dramatically. An argument can be made that it only is in this modern corporate soil, focused on nothing but money, that 'plants' like Rap can grow.
  
  Absolutely untrue. All early rap was also put out on small labels run by fans of the music. It wasn't until the late 80's when it was already established, that the corporate labels caught on started pushing it hard.
• 

  hillary_step

  Hi Sixy,

  Absolutely untrue. All early rap was also put out on small labels run by fans of the music. It wasn't until the late 80's when it was already established, that the corporate labels caught on started pushing it hard.

  Yes, you confirm my point illustrated with the example that you introduced of Punk music, which as you know also started on small labels but which were quickly taken over by the industry and turned into cash. Joe Strummer makes an interesting read in discussing this transition from back room to Albert Hall. It has been the modus operandi of the industry to try to eat up smaller labels the past couple of decades. Strangely enough this has caused many, including many smaller companies in the Rap industry to copy their modus.

  As I mentioned and you confirm, it has been the industry the past couple of decades that has tilled the soil and planted - the recording industry was a very different beast in the 60's and 70's.

  It is amazing to me that Rap is seriously being compared to the emergence of the Blues. I am not foolish enough to believe that all Rap lacks creativity and that all rap is 'gangsta rap', but a cursory glance at the aims and ideals of both would put that comparison into a more realistic framework.

  Who's more popular, Kenny Drew or Kenny G? Should all of Jazz music past to present be judged by the recordings of Mr. G and his smooth jazz brethren, just because they're the most popular? Wouldn't you suggest to someone that they dig a little deeper before passing judgement

  I certainly would agree. Popularity should never be the measuring line for creative excellence, in fact it is more often the opposite. For example, Joni Mitchell imho is one of the top five lyricists in any genre of music this century, though her last five albums barely broke even, despite their creative excellence. I take heart in this.

  As to KennyG...lol....what can one say. Chewing gum for the mind.

  HS
• 

  MadTiger

  hilary step:
  
  
  Here's a better rap:
  
  No political solution –
  all I see is confusion.
  Racists, they race to judgment
  Can’t resist the mind pollution.
  
  Crimes against man, by man,
  even a child can
  commit the heinous, maim us;
  out of the mouths of babes –
  words came to certainly defame us.
  Critical commentary, scary – nonetheless.
  We confess. No end in sight.
  No rapper’s delight in the dark message
  of imperial might
  and excess.
  
  Disillusioned, Disenfranchised,
  just plain dissed by myriad lies
  No compromise in sight
  and finally, I realize:
  
  There is no political solution.
  
  Sensed that disturbance
  in my force,
  and rejected
  that power so dark,
  and that life too hectic.
  
  Salvation eternal
  does not lie with man:
  their hearts infernal,
  burning with sin.
  Ages of evil deeds
  yield justification,
  and water the divine seeds
  of our condemnation.
  
  Spiritual –
  hopefully habitual
  in attendance.
  Endlessly hoping
  for the promised ascendance.
  not Transcendental,
  but most definitely mental.
  
  There is no political solution.
• 

  sixsixsixtynine

  H-Step,
  
  :: Yes, you confirm my point illustrated with the example that you introduced of Punk music, which as you know also started on small labels but which were quickly taken over by the industry and turned into cash. It has been the modus operandi of the industry to try to eat up smaller labels the past couple of decades. Strangely enough this has caused many, including many smaller companies in the Rap industry to copy their modus.
  
  :: As I mentioned and you confirm, it has been the industry the past couple of decades that has tilled the soil and planted - the recording industry was a very different beast in the 60's and 70's.
  
  Not exactly. I believe you were trying to make the point that rap "is a manufactured cultural identity".
  And while "Jazz, folk, blues and early rock" were birthed by "small labels made up of believers" who "started the ball rolling", rap was not. Rather, you imply that it was basically created outright by the corporate labels strictly as a product to sell. In reality the history of rap is nearly identical to that of the other genres you mentioned.
  
  As far as the industry eating up smaller labels, it's been going on a lot longer than the past couple decades. It goes back at least 50 years to RCA buying Elvis from Sam Phillips' Sun Records. 'Same as it ever was'.
  
  :: It is amazing to me that Rap is seriously being compared to the emergence of the Blues. I am not foolish enough to believe that all Rap lacks creativity and that all rap is 'gangsta rap', but a cursory glance at the aims and ideals of both would put that comparison into a more realistic framework.
  
  As someone who is obviously knowledgeable about the history of popular music, I'm sure you're aware that many of the most popular early blues records were little more than smutty novelties. I dont need to explain to you what "that sweet jelly roll", "crawling king snake", "backdoor man", "hoochie-coochie man", or "sixty-minute man" mean, do I? ;)
  
  If you only have the patience to listen to one example of rap music, check out The Roots. They are both 'black' AND 'popular' musicians who make some great records. The drummer ?uestlove is one of the finest in any genre today.
  
  Peace, Love, & Understanding, Matt
• 

  MsMcDucket

  Who the hell is Kenny Drew Jr? I went to Kenny Drew Jr's web site where he has posted his disdain of rap. I had a hard time finding the man on Google. I can't believe that his drivel made the news! Did you say that it was posted in the "Times"? I can't help it because he's not selling records.

  He is just one man. He is not my authority on music. Get a bunch of musicians with a degree in musicology and put them together and see what they have to say. Even if they said it wasn't music, it wouldn't stop the music/nonmusic sells.

  . . .and I'd still listen to the rap/hip hop music that I liked. I don't know what you call it, but I like it and so do millions of others, not just Blacks.

  I'm afraid that they're not going to stop listening to it because Hilary believes it's not music.
• 

  MsMcDucket

  Kenny Drew, Jr.

  From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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  An editor has expressed a concern that the subject of the article does not satisfy the notability guideline for Music.

  If you are familiar with the subject matter, please expand the article to establish its notability, citingreliable sources. If notability cannot be established, the article is more likely to be considered for deletion, as per Wikipedia:Guide to deletion. (See also Wikipedia:Notability)
  This article has been tagged since September 2006.

  Kenny Drew, Jr. is a jazz pianist who was born in New York City on June 14, 1958. He is the son of jazz pianist Kenny Drew.

  His initial study was in classical music with an aunt. In his teens he became interest in jazz and pop, but initially worked in funk bands. Later he went into jazz piano and in 1990 won the Great American Jazz Piano competition in Jacksonville, Florida. He has continued to do jazz, but has also done some chamber music. His style has some similarities to his father's, but is different enough to generally avoid comparison. He is considered the more eclectic of the two.
• 

  MsMcDucket

  Hilary, I can't believe that you tried to accuse me of playing the race card! Sheesh! You're the one posting the article and stating that "Kenny Drew" says blah, blah, blah about "black youth".

  I'm sure that you pulled the card!
• 

  hillary_step

  MsMcDucket,

  Hilary, I can't believe that you tried to accuse me of playing the race card! Sheesh! You're the one posting the article and stating that "Kenny Drew" says blah, blah, blah about "black youth".

  No point discussing this with you, as I have previously noted.

  I will just suggest that you read a little more carefully, and learn who Wikipedias 'editors' really are. It is hardly a peer reviewed authority!

  HS