"LOL , I think there's a little more to the WTBTS dogma than saying an invisible pink elephant came at a random time. Jesus did for tell his presence as being invisible , there is no pink elephant that made that claim"
Ease up on the pink elephant references, it is taking me back to my drinking days.
The longer I am away from hearing the contrived, controlling drivel of the WT, the more angry I am when I read it again.
It never was good, but the ones writing it now have no ability to address tough issues, or to appeal to their readers. Always the same thing; veiled threats, reminders of who THEY are, and of course, the end is near.
I can't help but think of it as vomit that is dried and forced fed to the half dead, who are then told it is manna from heaven.
April 1, 2007 Craptower---All About Obeying 'The Slave'
by Mary 63 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Pistoff
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yaddayadda
This is a high mind-control article with the sole purpose of reinforcing mental submission (bondage) to the GB and loyalty to the organisation.
Their entire reasoning rests on the completely fallacious 1914-1918 creed. It is nothing but a tissue of lies to be dismissed out of hand.
The GB really show how utterly spiritually drunk and puffed up they are with these kinds of shamelessly self-aggrandizing articles.
Moses' striking the rock and claiming he was provided the water for the people is nothing compared to the arrogance of the 'superfine' apostles at the Watchtower Society (2 Cor 11:5).
"Whoever exalts himself will be humbled..." - Matt 23:12
It is undeniable that more and more JW's are feeling uncomfortable that so many years have elapsed since 1914 and are quietly suspecting that something must be wrong. Particularly those who found the 1995 'generation' change of understanding hard to swallow. The Society would probably like to focus less and less on the 1914 date, but this article aptly demonstrates that without the 1914 myth they have no authority and cannot claim such total submission. The WTS has no choice but to keep harking back to their dusty old chronological fantasies because their entire authority as the Christ appointed 'faithful slave' rests on it.
They can only keep painting themselves into a corner for so long. -
heathen
Mary -- I think when jesus said to the apostles , "I will be with you all the days until the conclusion of this system of things" , that he meant an invisible presence was implied . Mathew 28:20 . I suppose it would be up to people whether or not they want to believe the gentile times concluded in 1914 or not . I think it possible it is the right date but was misapplied in many ways . The other signs of christs presence were , nation rise against nation, kingdom against kingdom , wars and rumors or wars , not until later in the prophesy does it sound like there is an obvious presence .
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Mary
heathen said: think when jesus said to the apostles , "I will be with you all the days until the conclusion of this system of things" , that he meant an invisible presence was implied.
Yes, I agree with you there. Obviously as he was "going away" he meant he would be with them in spirit, until His Second Coming. All the other scriptures that I quoted says that at the Second Coming "every eye will see him". The bible makes it clear that there is a difference between Jesus being with his followers in spirit, and the time when he actually returns. Even humans use metephors like "..I'll always be with you..." to their family and friends if they're say, moving away or going on an extended leave somewhere. When they tell you that they're coming back, no one takes that to mean they're coming back "invisibly"----they expect to actually SEE the person.
I suppose it would be up to people whether or not they want to believe the gentile times concluded in 1914 or not.
There's absolutely nothing to indicate the Gentile Times ended in 1914. First of all, the whole "7 Times" theory of Nebuchadnezzar, has absolutely nothing to do with the Gentile Times spoken of in Luke 21. The "7 Times" is simply the 7 years that Nebuchadnezzar went insane and lived like an animal:
(Daniel 4:16) 16 Let its heart be changed from that of mankind, and let the heart of a beast be given to it, and let seven times pass over it. . ."
The Gentile Times referred to in Luke 21 is something completely different. I've written on this before, but I'm too tired to look it up right now.
The other signs of christs presence were , nation rise against nation, kingdom against kingdom , wars and rumors or wars , not until later in the prophesy does it sound like there is an obvious presence.
No, actually, that's not quite right either. Matthew chapter 24 describes all the events that are leading up to Christ's return---not the other way around. Verses 29 and 30 make it clear that he does not return until "after the tribulation of those days". Plus, verse 31 and 32 tells us that when we see all these things (the wars, famines etc.) to know that he is "near at the door". Near. Not that he's been ruling invisibly over Brooklyn Bethel for 90 years. The WTS always claims that the word "parousia" means "presence" but they neglect to tell you that it also means "return, advent, arrival."
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heathen
All I said is it is possible the date is good , you are saying it's impossible ? Jesus did give signs of his presence and no he did not start off with a visible one . I think the 20th century was more ridden with war than any other century in mans existence we were always hearing of wars and rumors of wars . The cold war was on and everybody expected nuclear war with russia. Granted the evidence of a prophetic calendar is flimsy but does not mean it is impossible . Believe what you wish.................
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Mary
All I said is it is possible the date is good , you are saying it's impossible ?
Heathen, are you serious? You've been on this board for 6 years and you still think the WTS could be right about 1914?! OK, giving the WTS the benefit of the doubt on this, let's say the Last Days did indeed start in 1914. Jesus specifically said "When you see these things START to occur, raise yourselves erect, because your deliverance is getting near." He also said "this generation will by no means pass away." Guess what? That generation is gone; deliverance did not come to those who saw these thing "start to occur." Therefore, by using simple logic, that means that 1914 is an erroneous date. Either that, or Jesus lied.
Jesus did give signs of his presence and no he did not start off with a visible one.
I never said he started off with a visible one. Read what I said. I quoted the scriptures that specifically says that he would return after all the signs of war, famine, etc., not before.
I think the 20th century was more ridden with war than any other century in mans existence we were always hearing of wars and rumors of wars . The cold war was on and everybody expected nuclear war with russia. Granted the evidence of a prophetic calendar is flimsy but does not mean it is impossible.
So then why didn't The End come in the 20th century Heathen? If the Last Days had begun in 1914, then where is the Great Tribulation? Where is Armageddon? According to the WTS chronology, they both should have been here long ago, as a biblical generation is only 70 or 80 years. So obviously, they were wrong and this is still a future event. You did not provide any scriptural basis for your assumption, you merely quoted an Organization that has never gotten one, single prophecy right.
Believe what you wish.................
No, I believe what's logical. There is no scriptural basis for the 1914 theory, end of story. To believe in it, when there's no evidence to back it up, makes no sense. And given the fact that you said:"...I can't say I know about Freddy Franz but think the WTBTS was run by monkies...." in one of your posts a few years ago, I find it hard to believe that you actually think they could be right about 1914.
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heathen
:"...I can't say I know about Freddy Franz but think the WTBTS was run by monkies...."
guilty as charged LMAO .......................... Amazing how people can fight dirty like that ....................
All I can say is I agree it takes leaps of faith to conclude 1914 . First you have to conclude that judah fell to babylon in 607 bce . then you have to believe that the 7 times of Daniel has a second fullfillment ,then not only that but there is a prophetic calendar that noah used as mentioned in genesis, of a 360 day year and not only that but a day for a year rule applies from the story of Jacob. No doubt about it , this is not something that is easy to grasp . I'm relooking at the Mathew scripture and in 24:33 it just says know that I am near at the doors it does not say conclusion and millenial reign. He goes on to say nobody knows the day or the hour in vrs 36.
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mama1119
What a bunch of bunk.
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heathen
Yah well keep in mind , theoretically the buble bee is not supposed to fly ................................ You do need some super spiritual powers to make sense out of it >LOL
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AllTimeJeff
Great thread. I don't know if anyone has noticed, but I always saw for years that there were certain themes that would be repeated every year. There is always talks at the DC's every year about submission to the "faithful and discreet slave AND its governing body". Most of these articles were DC talks first from the year before. The teaching committee works this all up, makes the outlines, organizes the DC's.... Then the writing committee gets a hold of it and turns it into WT articles......
Thats why meeting attendance is so important. If you aren't reminded every couple of months from the people in charge that the people who are in charge are in charge because the big man upstairs put them in charge, you are more likely to come to the conclusion that the weekly JW schedule they want you to follow is total garbage. But if they get you to think it is about obeying god, (which it isn't of course) then you do so for fear or other reasons....
Thats what I "love" about the GB. They want you to be all independent and critical of other religions right up until you get baptized. Then you have to turn it off....;