by gumby 152 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
I am happy to see the world as it is, and not as the cariacatured "system of things" that one reads in the WTS publications. I think of what Elton Pope said in Love & Monsters:
But the truth is, the world is so much stranger than that. It's so much darker. And so much madder. And so much better.
JT, don't buy that wax from E-bay. It has no wrinkle cream in it and it will shrival your bag even worse......plus it stings like the dickens.
Doneforgood,
Happiness is NOT dependant on knowing absolute truth. The closest thing we have to absolute truth is what science and history allow us to know.
Unfortunatly science and history are still clueless about life......which makes my dilema even more hopeless. If god would speak to me, science and history wouldn't matter too much.
Parakeet,
Gumby: "How about you personally......are you a happier person?"
To me honest.....i can't say that I am.
Narkster....excellent scripture! How true that saying is eh? See there.....the bible DOES have some good stuff in it!!!
Ms Mcduckett.......I always thoiught you were an angel
OTWO,
I must agree, ignorance is good to some degree.....but not total ignorance. I just need a glimmer of hope and the rest can stay vague for now.
Mary, I hope your right about NDE. Maybe you could hit me over the head real hard with a fryin pan and bring me to that point so's I can see for meself
Kaput,
How much patience do you have, waiting for them to come to the same realization as you have about the JW religion? I'm afraid your inner self will be in turmoil until all whom you love follow you out the door
I have plenty of patience if I see some progress along the way. Even IF they(my family) comes out of the Organisation, I can't say we'll all be happier because their hope will be gone and my grandkids won't have lions and tigers and bears in a new system of things with no more troubles.
Kabong....I didn't know you believed in the gospels. Now I know for sure your smoking mexican weed.
tetra, so far, your words haven't proven true yet. maybe someday they will.
Gregor,
Your always puttin your finger where it don't belong.....ain't ya? And quit makin fun of illiterate people! Just kidding BrandaCountry Girl, that's the word I've been trying to put my finger on
Gumby
Hiya gumbers! It's good to "see" you again. I wish I could call you, but I know that would be unadvisable, for the moment. However, you have my number, and feel free.
I haven't read every response above, and so not in a deliberate disregard for what others have already said:
Does Knowing the Truth Make you...
Not in and of itself. Knowing that "the Truth is not the truth" made me extremely sad, virtually hopeless. That happened long before I joined JWD.
Knowing that "the truth is not the truth" made me even more perplexed. I came to realize that after I joined JWD (my "ephiphany thread"; I'm sure you'll remember it).
It was realizing that "I can never know the Truth or the truth" that most baffled me, and at the same time relieved me. I was struggling always after the unachievable.
In this line of thought, please pardon me if I post a couple of things somewhat off-topic, but they seem relevant to me, and they have been burdening my heart, so I must say them:
1) You have made tough decisions, based on hard realities, and though they cannot be reconciled with logic, they must, at times, be made the way they are. I made many similar decisions, and even though in retrospect I can imagine other ways that I might have done things...nevertheless, I made those decisions based on what I could best determine was the best thing to do at the time (as you well know). Therefore, you have my empathy.
2) You know it's not my nature to drag other posters into a thread, but I have a high degree of confidence that Jim Whitney would understand what I'm saying, and the context of why I'm saying it here: He, too, has recently made decisions, along what imvho are comparably compelling circumstances. Why the comparison? Because now you both have made a conscientious and intelligent decision to do what you have determined is the best thing for you both to do...and for that, no human can stand condemned.
As to the second part of your question:
...a Happier person?
Honestly, I would have to say No. I would say this, though: It makes me less discontent, because at least now I am not pursuing the unachievable, and learning to accept life on its terms, rather than mine, or those of some organization, or of some other person.
I may not have expressed myself well in this post, and for that please bear with me...it's not an easy thing for me to expose my vulnerablilites in this way.
Best regards,
Craigster
Hey gumby, it's good hearing from you again, posting here must be therapy for your soul.
As for your question, knowing the truth about the "Truth" has made me much more content. I no longer have to waste my time looking for answers designed for tickling my ear.
When I found out the truth about the witnesses, I was lost in a great big world and now had no answers other than the fact that what I once believed was "the Truth" in actuality wasn't the truth.I now had to start all over in my search for truth.
This starting all over actually isn't such a bad thing, what I come to realize and accept is that I don't know all the answers, nor do I really need all the answers presently. I really not inclined to accept all the "present truth" about science because we are really just scratching the surface, there is so much to know (I accept the discoveries, just not the metaphysical implication). I am also disinclined to accepted the finality of atheism because at this point, we still don't have all the information and as you said, it is kind of empty. If there is a real God or entity that we can identify as God (which I am inclined to believe), then eventually he will have to act and I don't believe it will be in a great display of worldwide destruction because some people had problems with the evidence. We will just have to wait and see and do our best to be decent human beings and try to reach our potential.
That is sort of where I am right now and I can live with that.
By the way, the hair didn't grow back from the last nutsack shinin I got from you. 
thecarpenter from the hairless class
Gumby I'm much happier knowing the truth about the JW's and happy about my newfound outlook. I love the freedom to trust in mankind. I love the ability to accept people without wondering if it's wrong somehow to accept and approve of them!
Mankind is so marvelous and capable of so much. I don't know if we'll ever stop all the violence and come together to accomplish something but I do believe man is pretty awesome when you separate them from any kind of extreme religion or other extreme belief system.
It's great to feel relaxed, great not to feel guilty all the time, etc. It's also great knowing how utterly absurd the notion of Armageddon or Paradise is....
Even IF they(my family) comes out of the Organisation, I can't say we'll all be happier because their hope will be gone and my grandkids won't have lions and tigers and bears in a new system of things with no more troubles.
Eventually we ALL learn there is no tooth fairy. I realize one's involvement with the religion is much larger than this, but as for the truth, it is what it is.
gumby, so far I have only read your first post, it could have been written by me. I feel exactly the same as you do. I can honestly say that at present my thinking is that I was happier when I was ignorant.
There's a pattern forming here:
I keep speaking and extending my love, but ya keep on ignoring it...
For many, not knowing is ok by them. They live life to the fullest and enjoy life in not knowing all these things i've mentioned. I wish I were as they are in not knowing but unfortunatley for me personally, i'm not ok with this. On one hand i'm glad to know the truth about the witnesses but on the other hand i'm left void.
This is the place I found myself in after I left and I stayed there for about 10 years. Frankly Mr. Gumby, I was never able to solve this. It seems to me that spirituality and/or God is almost completely about belief. I find that somewhat frustrating. That seems to me to be little more than telling yourself whatever you want. My life has been hard enough so that I have a great deal of difficulty accepting there is someone who actually cares, so I need proof. Show me. But I've long since accepted that won't happen.
So ultimately I had no choice but to put this issue up on a shelf. Occasionally I take it down, but like Rubik's Cube's to me it is nearly impossible to solve.
If it helps Gumby, I went to a handful of meetings after I left, mainly through Nina's guilt and pressure (not her fault she was programmed). I always, always, always, felt worse about myself, angry, had a massive headache (sometimes I'd become physicaly ill). Eventually I stood up to her and told her never again. She tried tears, big guilt ("the kids miss you so much"), relentless pressure and so on but I wouldn't budge. That was a big deal to me. It was the first time in my life I stood up for myself and did not allow someone close to me to mistreat me or degrade me. I think I know why you're doing what you are, but just remember you have value too. Unfortunately there are many times we are the only ones who can or will recognize that value but when you do, protect that value and care about yourself.
You always have options and choices. I don't like to see you being in that sect because it's just not good for you. They screw with the mind and rip apart the soul for their own ends. Again I understand your motivation, but I want you to realize you have value because of who you are. Going to that Hall only diminishes who you are and tells you, that you are worth less.
Be well my friend.
Chris
For me?
Depends on the day.
Some days I wonder what the hell I did.
Other days, I am more the confident I made the right decision.
Today is a good day. Today I have a future. My kids have a future. With the future, hope continues to live.
I don't know what tomorrow may bring. Maybe my siblings will have a freakin' revelation.
And ya know who reminded me that? My friends here.
Don't lose hope Gumby. Please don't lose hope. You really don't know.
Maybe ignorance IS bliss. But you can't turn back time. You can't return to beleiving a lie. You sound like you really love your family.
I hope that realize how damn lucky they are to have you in their life.
