Did the heavenly calling cease in 1935? Not anymore! (page 23)

garybuss

I'm with Heathen (again) relating to keeping 1914. They will keep 1914 because without it the appointment of 1919 is hurt if not lost.

On the topic of appointment, my mind keeps coming back to the question of the authority and function of the Watch Tower Society from 1872 until 1919.

If the Society was appointed in 1919, obviously it was not appointed before 1919. What was the status of the Society from 1872 and especially from 1879 up until 1919?

What's with the Society posting Russell's picture and quoting from the pre 1919 writings without notation that the quoted information is from pre-appointment literature? Why wasn't Russell's corporation appointed while Rutherford's was?

These are not casual questions. They deserve rational answers.

scrubmaster

I would have to say that this is setting up the Rank and file for the change that the 144,000 is not a literal number. Even though it could not have been in the first place. I have a hard time believing that there was not 144,000 Faithful ones from the time Christ died until now. I even had this dicussion with my wife. Also does any one remember a question from readers were they accidently made reference to 100,000 of Thousands of first centuries Christians dying and then they had to retract that because that was the case, the 144,000 would have be completed filled in the 1st century.

drew sagan

They will keep 1914 because without it the appointment of 1919 is hurt if not lost.

Let us not also forget how good the WTS was at making us think that they actually predicted something would happen in 1914! Many of us just took the bait no realizing the details.

They have enough pseudo information surrouding 1914 in regards to their old publications, WWI and newspaper quotes to make it seem like they really had Gods guidance during this time.

1914 isn't going to go anywhere and is going to remain at the core of their religion. It's all the other dates and times that I think they are going to generalize and simply say 'who really knows'. They will eventually get to the point where no teachings have a time table attached. That is the direction I think they are moving towards.

-drew

sir82

I see them in a real bind with regard to 1914. On the one hand, as noted above, they base their claim to authority entirely on an invisible inspection by an invisible Jesus Christ in 1919 - if he didn't come invisibly in 1914, how do you justify a 1919 inspection? If no 1919 inspection, where is their authority?

On the other hand, they also tie in the "beginning of the last days" to 1914. We are rapidly approaching the 100-year anniversary of the 1914 date, and it is a kind of psychological barrier - did Jesus prophecy about "the last days" or "the last centuries"? I can easily see it having an effect on even loyal JWs, even if a subconscious one.

They could separate the 1914 parousia thing from the last days - they could say that Jesus came invisibly in 1914, but the war in heaven, last days, etc. etc. didn't begin then. But the problem with that is, if they ease up even slightly on the "we're in the last of the last days" mantra, the exodus will only accelerate.

They should open up a contest - the next open slot on the GB goes to the person who figures out how to get them out of this mess!

under_believer

I disagree with those that are saying that they'll keep 1914 because 1919 is so important. I don't think 1919 is important at all in practical terms.

I don't think very many active Witnesses alive right now care about their claim to authority or whether 1919 is pivotal to it. I don't think most people understand the Two Witnesses as the Society interprets them. I don't think that most people are paying attention to the Revelation book, or understanding it.

I think the Society could discard 1914 today, this instant, in a huge announcement read to all the congregations, and most people wouldn't even put two and two together about how they rest their claim of authority on the 1919 appointment.

Most people don't use that as their basis for believing that the WTS is God's Organization. And the Society hasn't used it as a basis in any significant way for years. They point to other things--"love among themselves," the growth, the international nature of their work, the teachings (who else teaches no trinity, no hell, paradise earth, etc). Even in absence of all of the bogus chronology, most Witnesses would believe it.

They WON'T get rid of 1914, because they don't need to, but they could if they wanted. What they are going to do is stop talking about it, and in 10 years hardly anyone will even remember or care, just like in 1984 when the guy giving the war rallying speech switched enemies IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SPEECH and everyone barely noticed.

garybuss

Good points sir82,

The last days starting in 1914 made some logical sense in 1951 when I took my first door with a magazine bag at age 7, but 56 years later, it makes no sense at all. They've milked that cow about dry.

They could tie the last days to the end like they did with the generation of 1914 that wasn't going to die. They could just say the last days are the days leading up to the end . . . whenever that is . . . we have no idea when that might be.

Zico

'Let us not also forget how good the WTS was at making us think that they actually predicted something would happen in 1914! Many of us just took the bait no realizing the details.'

Good point Drew. People often say that 1919 is why they have to keep 1914, but I actually think this is a bigger reason to keep the date.

M.J.

Question. How soon will this change likely be known by the R&F in the congregations? When will the mag be distributed? Will there likely be some sort of letter to the elders on it before that?

drew sagan

Question. How soon will this change likely be known by the R&F in the congregations? When will the mag be distributed? Will there likely be some sort of letter to the elders on it before that?

Well, my guess is that this new light should catch up the the adverage JW in the next 5-10 years.

I stopped going around October of last year. Up untill the last C.O. visit there was Elders still pushing the generation teaching.

When we look at all of this I just don't think that we can undermine how slow JWs are on what they really teach. I would aslo add that most JWs don't talk about this kind of stuff anywhere near the level it is discussed by ex-members. When I was JW I had only the most basic idea about what we really believed. Now that i'm out I know more about it than I ever did.

-Drew

moshe

I wonder just what the "good news of the Kingdom" is they will be preaching now. The GB has totally mucked up the message they can preach at the door.- it was very logical back when the little blue Truth book came out just before the 70's. - Not Now!!

If they ever open up the gates of heaven to everyone in the KH, then I think the KH will face a massive loss of members who will defect to a kinder. gentler fellowship of Christians. I can just hear the remaining JW's in 10 years- "Oh, we never said that only 144,000 were going to heaven. That's just a viscious lie those mean apostates are spreading about us. We never told anyone that they couldn't choose to be in heaven with Jesus"

Did the heavenly calling cease in 1935? Not anymore!

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