Did the heavenly calling cease in 1935? Not anymore! (page 21)

Narkissos

Hey, get with the script. What ~~have you been smoking~~ old bright-coloured books have you been reading? The teaching is now that the "great crowd" consists of whoever happens to be alive at Amageddon. There is no expectation among Witnesses that those alive when Rutherford came up with the idea of the "great crowd" in 1935 will be alive when Armageddon comes.
This does not qualify as an example of incoherence, if you were in the Ministry School I would give you a W for work harder.

Now I understand the W in Fred W. Franz or George W. Bush.

I have been blissfully ignorant of about anything JW-related for the last 20 years (until I ventured on these forums, that is), but even in the early 80s the "Great Crowd" was similarly defined as I recall. This doesn't change anything to the fact that every generation of JWs since the 30s was told that the purpose of the preaching work was to gather "other sheep" forsurvival, hence to constitute the "great crowd" eventually. Has the society ever ventured an explanation why several generations of "non-anointed" people had to be gathered and buried before Armaggedon? This to me is still a big inconsistency in the script. Perhaps they could adapt their old explanation about dinosaurs (you know, they had to live and die to make the soil fertile for later animals).

TD

Narkissos,

This doesn't change anything to the fact that every generation of JWs since the 30s was told that the purpose of the preaching work was to gather "other sheep" forsurvival, hence to constitute the "great crowd" eventually.

Yes. I think there are a number of Witness teachings that would need be overhauled or abandonded. The Witnesses have taught and still teach that the Man with the writers inkhorn (Ezekiel 9) are the anointed 'remnant' here on earth who mark the 'great multitude' for survival.

bennyk

In 1935 the "great crowd" of Revelation 7:9-15 was understood to be made up of "other sheep," Christians with an earthly hope, who would appear on the world scene in "the last days" and who as a group would survive Armageddon. (John 10:16; 2 Timothy 3:1; Revelation 21:3, 4) After that year, the thrust of the disciple-making work turned to the gathering in of the great crowd. Hence, especially after 1966 it was believed that the heavenly call ceased in 1935. This seemed to be confirmed when almost all who were baptized after 1935 felt that they had the earthly hope. Thereafter, any called to the heavenly hope were believed to be replacements for anointed Christians who had proved unfaithful.

(Difficulty posting, also see below)

bennyk

Compare/contrast the above to the following:

Life Everlasting (1966)
(p. 147)
53 Since then, going on to a million persons have
Dedicated themselves to Jehovah God and have
been baptized in water and now profess to belong,
not to the anointed remnant of the “little flock,”
(p. 148)
but to the “other sheep.” In fact, no heavenly
calling, no spiritual Kingdom hope, were held be-
fore them at the time of their water baptism.Why was this? What did this baptism and bring-
ing in of such “other sheep” since 1934 mean?

54 Evidently it meant that the 144,000 who were
called to the heavenly kingdom had been picked
out by that time and that there was just a rem-
nant of those “anointed” for the Kingdom left
on earth.”

It certainly seems to me that the Society set the stage for the confirmation of their teaching. The circular reasoning is priceless! ‘Because the heavenly calling ended circa 1934, it was not offered to the “other sheep”, which meant they necessarily felt they had an earthly hope, and since they did, it indicates the heavenly calling ended circa 1934…’

OnTheWayOut

While this is not totally honesty, the rank and file would think it's remarkable honesty
for the GB to simply say the following:

Since 1935, the general call for anointed ones has been filled. While there are still a few
younger anointed ones on earth, the holy spirit has revealed to the Governing Body that,
as the truth spreads throughout the developing countries more than ever before, many of
the partakers are confused about their calling. The true remnant members are getting
older and receiving their heavenly calling.

As holy spirit is provided to the governing body from the heavenly kings, there is no
longer a need for the aging remnant members to be searched out for positions on the
Governing Body. Holy spirit will act upon current Governing Body members to select
appropriate members for their ranks, be they from the remnant or the members of the
other sheep who have proven to put God's will first in their lives.

That's a lot simpler and they would explain the current situation in a way that looks honest.

moshe

Judge Rutherford bluffed his way for over 20 years and their was no meaningful revolt among the rank and file. As long as the dubs accept the authority of the elders and the GB, then I see the majority just taking all these changes up the keester with hardly a complaint. Those who do complain will be demonized as usual and Df'd- the JW equivalent of the burning the heretic at the stake.

heathen

LOL at the avatar there moshe. Great scott marty how is the watchtower going to spin all this .......

That's some serious tacking with the wind they are doing , you are right they have been publishing alot of articles about obedience here lately , stay away from the evil apostates that actually do more research on the watchtower than most dubs do . Personally I can't see a change to include all dubs in a co rulership position , I can see a move stating that all faithful christians can be anointed with spirit tho , they keep making it sound as if they already inherited the kingdom but the bible is clear that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom and that the first resurrection is for the co-rulers only so that does leave the great crowd surviving .The only way they depict them surviving is by making it to a kingdom hall when it all hits the fan . Makes littles sense to me .

CashRocks

According to the May 1st Watchtower:

“They [today’s anointed] humbly remember that some anointed men in the first century did not qualify to serve as elders or ministerial servants. …. And sisters, although anointed, did not teach in the congregation.”

They don’t have the capabilities of serving in the capacity of a ministerial servant, yet are destined to rule over the earth? And women who are of the anointed are destined to rule over the earth, yet aren’t allowed to teach in the congregation?

There surely has to be something wrong with this picture!

dozy

They are going to redefine the "Faithful and Discreet Slave." It will no longer be a class of people, but instead will refer to "God's Earthly Organization," i.e. the Watchtower Society headed by the Governing Body. Not any individual people at the Society, but the Society and its daughter entities as a whole. If you think about it this is really just a formalization of the unspoken truth that Witnesses have been living with for decades.

I doubt this - I think that the formula the WTS has used for years is too entrenched to overturn , and very few JWs think about the distinction (other than a few anointed ones who think they should have more authority). There may be a stronger emphasis on the "domestics" who the WTS define as the FADS as individuals to encourage them to submit to the GB. The WTS will continue with its unspoken policy to hardly ever appoint anointed ones to serve on Branch committees to ensure that no individual can gather a "power base". Likelihood = 30%

The "replacement" theory will be (and is, as of now) discarded.

I don't think that it will be discarded as such , because it fits in well to the "grafting on" of new branches doctrine , but I guess that it will quietly be dropped and hardly ever mentioned again. It began with FF and has died with him - I don't think the other GB members really bought into it - the idea that there were hordes of 95 year old faithful anointed sisters who suddenly became apostate or renounced their beliefs was always absurd. Likelihood = 90%

They will stop reporting the number of anointed (but they will still record it.)

I'm sure that they would love to do this , but the reporting of the figure is very much a fait accompli. Often it is the first figure that JWs look for. The way I would drop the figure is simply to have an article in the KM every October or November about the Memorial with a few experiences stating the attendance but not mentioning the partakers - then drop any reference whatsoever in the worldwide report to the Memorial. Likelihood = 15%

144,000 will no longer be a literal number.

Inevitable , as previously mentioned. Look for a groundbreaking flash of new light very shortly. Likelihood = 98%

Dozy - Was your 'speculative' QFR for real, or just 'tongue in cheek'?

Absolutely real - the GB faxed me a copy for my approval! Seriously , purely tongue in cheek.

sir82

Judge Rutherford bluffed his way for over 20 years and their was no meaningful revolt among the rank and file.

Are you sure of that? As I recall, there was something like a 75% drop in the number of Bible Students between 1925 & 1928 or so, as a result of the muffed-up 1925 prediction. I believe most of the current-day Russellites, in their various incarnations & names, can trace their history to a split in that time period.

But it's hard to imagine a similar falling-away today - JWs have been thoroughly whipped into a "obey-at-all-costs-and-maintain-unity" mindset for decade after decade, generation after generation - a mindset that did not exist in the 20's.

Did the heavenly calling cease in 1935? Not anymore!

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