Christian balance requires understanding the Scriptural principles involved, and acting accordingly. It's more challenging to achieve than it may sound. The factors involved do change over time as the symbols and actions change meaning within the cultures over time (both the culture of the many, and the culture of Jehovah's Witnesses).
Is practicing Capoeira wrong/bad/discouraged by Jehovah's Witnesses?
by aikichristian 78 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Scully
Start calling it "kick-boxing" instead, and you'll be ok.
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Fred E Hathaway
A rose by any other name is still just as prickly. Martial arts are still exercises that are intended for those that prepare for war. (Mars is the Roman god of war; Martial is an adjectival form of Mars.) This thread' first post, by aikichristian, pretty much answered his own question with his own research.
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SirNose586
Christian balance requires understanding the Scriptural principles involved, and acting accordingly. It's more challenging to achieve than it may sound. The factors involved do change over time as the symbols and actions change meaning within the cultures over time (both the culture of the many, and the culture of Jehovah's Witnesses).
Well well Fred, it looks like you acknowledge that meanings of customs can change over time, and that what once had an "objectionable" beginning is now ok. This is why the WT allows baptisms, wedding rings, and baby showers, even though it fully knows that the current practice of such things is not how it used to be in the distant past. Yet they forbid clinking of glasses, and other things for the pagan origins that they had, even though the practices share little in common with what they used to be. The WT loves to pick and choose what pagan things they think aren't so bad.
A rose by any other name is still just as prickly. Martial arts are still exercises that are intended for those that prepare for war. (Mars is the Roman god of war; Martial is an adjectival form of Mars.) This thread' first post, by aikichristian, pretty much answered his own question with his own research.
He and his girlfriend want to study these martial arts for the self-defense benefit, and others that he mentioned. There's nothing wrong with self defense. Jesus told his followers to carry a sword with them for protection, didn't he?
(Luke 22:35-38) 35 He also said to them: "When I sent YOU forth without purse and food pouch and sandals, YOU did not want for anything, did YOU?" They said: "No!" 36 Then he said to them: "But now let the one that has a purse take it up, likewise also a food pouch; and let the one having no sword sell his outer garment and buy one.37 For I tell YOU that this which is written must be accomplished in me, namely, ‘And he was reckoned with lawless ones.’ For that which concerns me is having an accomplishment." 38 Then they said: "Lord, look! here are two swords." He said to them: "It is enough."
Even the WT acknowledges that running away won't always work, and that if given no other choice, you must fight. But you will have a better chance of surving the fight, and perhaps prevent it from breaking out, if you know how to defend yourself.
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What-A-Coincidence
Jehobahs Witnesses are a cult so true christians like myself stay away from cult doctrines as published in the Bootylaya.
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Fred E Hathaway
Back to the thread topic, and SirNose586. As he quoted me so well, it bears repeating:
Christian balance requires understanding the Scriptural principles involved, and acting accordingly. It's more challenging to achieve than it may sound. The factors involved do change over time as the symbols and actions change meaning within the cultures over time (both the culture of the many, and the culture of Jehovah's Witnesses).
The WT has presented well-reasoned articles over the years on the changes in meaning of many things, among them baptism, wedding rings, and baby showers. Why, even the Bible itself speaks of the Jews' many other baptisms, which were not required among Jehovah's Witnesses, whether in the 1st century CE or now. As for the clinking of glasses, the clinkers are not raising their songbooks and voices in praise of Jehovah, are they? And even if they were, is it drinking of alcohol, or in this thread, martial-arts training that improves outcomes in decision-making? Hardly! Rather, as the Good Book says, at 1 Timothy 4:5, "bodily training is beneficial for a little; but godly devotion is beneficial for all things, as it holds promise of the life now and that which is to come." Articles, such as are found in the Watchtower and Awake!, provide us with what we need at the proper time. Let us not go beyond what is written, even here. -
rebel8
aiki,
Basically the answer is this: It doesn't matter if the rule is logical or in harmony with the Bible. The only thing that matters is that the wt has forbidden it and as such there is no negotiation.
Physical activities that are claimed to have roots in "Paganism" have precedents in wt dogma--yoga for example.
Making rules about non-issues is a method to control people, so you cannot expect that proving Capoeira isn't what they claim is going to sway the elders. They are unwilling to give up the control these rules impart.
Fred,
Indeed it is the wt that is going beyond what is written in the Bible. There is absolutely no Biblical prohibition on many things the wt prohibits. -
aikichristian
I'm Catholic, she is a Jehovah's Witness.
For a while she went "underground" with the Capoeira thing, but dropped it because it was getting harder to hide the "i just finished working out in Capoeira for 3 hours" sweat and blisters on her feet. She has very nice feet, the blisters were the only downside of Capoeira I saw. She would be in disobedience to her parents, but not because it was their rule...because the "Watchtower" said so. In that scenario, her mother wasn't even thinking for herself. There was no further investigation into the matter...the magazine said it, and that was that.
If Jehovah's Witnesses are so worried about men learning about war, then why do they concern themselves with "spiritual battles", sin, and disharmony in the congregation?
To be good, you have to learn how to fight sin.....but wait, JWs shouldn't learn belligerent acts/techniques. They're supposed to be peaceful even though the Biblical approach to purifying one's spirit and following God is described as difficult and violent...an internal war even.
Back to the thread topic, and SirNose586. As he quoted me so well, it bears repeating:
Christian balance requires understanding the Scriptural principles involved, and acting accordingly. It's more challenging to achieve than it may sound. The factors involved do change over time as the symbols and actions change meaning within the cultures over time (both the culture of the many, and the culture of Jehovah's Witnesses).
The WT has presented well-reasoned articles over the years on the changes in meaning of many things, among them baptism, wedding rings, and baby showers. Why, even the Bible itself speaks of the Jews' many other baptisms, which were not required among Jehovah's Witnesses, whether in the 1st century CE or now. As for the clinking of glasses, the clinkers are not raising their songbooks and voices in praise of Jehovah, are they? And even if they were, is it drinking of alcohol, or in this thread, martial-arts training that improves outcomes in decision-making? Hardly! Rather, as the Good Book says, at 1 Timothy 4:5, "bodily training is beneficial for a little; but godly devotion is beneficial for all things, as it holds promise of the life now and that which is to come." Articles, such as are found in the Watchtower and Awake!, provide us with what we need at the proper time. Let us not go beyond what is written, even here.What 1 Tim 4:5 says is true, but it doesn't dismiss bodily training altogether nor does it discourage it. Martial-arts can be used for the glory of Jehovah in the following ways:
- the increased physical fitness improves one's health and ability to perform the work of Jehovah. For example, you can do more door-to-door ministry, carry more pamphlets, and not get as tired as you once were.
- the disclipine and perseverence necessary in martial arts can be applied to your spiritual growth, therefore making you a stronger and more durable believer. Also, at some point, you may be asked to teach newcomers teachniques they know nothing about. This can be applied to in evangelization...it improves your ability to teach!
- the self-defense skills will help you preserve your body from harm and even help defend your congregation members from attack as well. This will help you continue item #1.
- certain philosophies of martial arts are in-line with Bible teaching. The re-emphasis of such "good" things will only be of benefit.
- Understanding and experience with physical combat can aid in your spiritual struggles as well.
If you're a JW, and ever had block an attack, defend yourself, spank your kids, kick a dog, rough-house/horse-play, reenacted a scene from a martial arts movie, hit an object in frustration....then guess what?
you used a technique found in nearly all martial arts styles! And if you think spanking your kids is not a MA technique....look at a Kung-fu book and get back to me....its an open-handed strike.
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betterdaze
aikichristian, I'd like to add this list to yours.
http://www.capoeiranj.com/capoeira.htm
THE BENEFITS OF PRACTICING CAPOEIRA
* Flexibility
* Mobility
* Rhythm
* Power
* Endurance
* Development of another language
* Gain a singing voice
* Cardio-vascular fitness
* Spatial awareness
* Provides a personal creative outlet
* Gain self-confidence
* Foster cultural identity
These are all in harmony with bible principles. The Watchtower does have the habit of "demonizing" African culture in general. What do you expect when sequestered ancient white men who hate dancing, music and sports call all the shots?
It's acknowledged on the site above that Capoeira *used to* be used for fighting, but this is not what they teach or perform *today*. They have some cool videos on the home page; looks like a super workout and no one's getting hurt or, LOL, "preparing for war."
~Sue -
Fred E Hathaway
It is the spirit of/operating the thing, not the thing itself, that is often the problem. JWs have a spiritual warfare, not a physical one.