Merry - do you think you'll be moving to a larger city soon so you can associate with your Muslim brothers and sisters fully?
Otherwise, mum's friend attends a mosque quite near us (10 min drive, ish - there are 2 closer but that's the one her family attends), and they radio broadcast all the services, so even if she isn't there (it's a very liberal mosque, but there still seems lots of reasons she's not allowed to attend: if she has her period, or sometimes I think it's only men allowed!) she can listen to the services while she's doing whatever - I assume this would be handy for Muslim taxi drivers and stuff too. The Imam conducts the services both English and Arabic. It might be worth ringing your "local" :) mosque and seeing if they have this. Otherwise there might be a phone link-up... nowadays there's probably a podcast! :D
He's been dead for nearly 1400 years, but only lived to the mores of his time period. Judging him by modern day standards is ridiculous. The chances are that you don't have to go too far back in your own family tree to find someone who married an under 16 year old. Do I need to condemn you the way that you are condemning others?
Oh absolutely I'm sure some will have been married under 16, but I'm not following any of them as an alleged prophet *after having left a religion because of a similar issue*.
I know we're doing this to death and I *do* get your point, but for *me* following a man from such a very backward age (Jesus 600+ years earlier didn't have sex with little girls did he?! :D ) after leaving the confines and scandal of the JWs would be a step backward too. :)
Merry Becomes A Muslim (a bit long)
by Merry Magdalene 147 Replies latest jw experiences
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glitter
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Euphemism
Good discussion, Merry! Mind if I keep questioning a little?
I did not know that much about Muslims at present or throughout history when I became a Muslim myself, and my decision (or awakening awareness) was not based on what others believe or do but on my own reading of the meaning of the Qur'an.
I do think this is the root of the reaction you're getting. When you say that you have 'become a Muslim', you mean that you have begun practicing your personal understanding of the meaning of the Quran. When other people hear that you have 'become a Muslim', they assume that you have accepted some form of Islam as it is typically practiced. There's a pretty big difference there, IMHO. (Not saying you're wrong to call yourself a Muslim, of course; just that poeple are likely to misunderstand what you mean.)
Although the Qur'an describes those who will go to hell so we can do our personal best to make sure we are not among them, judgment is for Allah alone and He reserves the right to pardon who He will. I do not know who is and who is not going to hell.
I'm sorry, but I have to say that when I heard that, my mind immediately flashed back to the answer the Witnesses are supposed to give if they're asked in the ministry whether they believe that non-JWs will be saved. "Well, we never know about any individual; we leave the judging up to Jehovah." We all know that's a smoke-screen, though, and that they actually believe that the vast majority of--if not all--non-Witnesses will die at Armageddon.
Obviously, you're not putting up a smoke-screen; you're a very sincere person, or else you wouldn't be talking to us like this. But I have to wonder, do you think that Allah is going to make an exception for most non-monotheists (polytheists and atheists)? (I realize that the People of the Book have a special status, but that still leaves nearly half the world's population.) If most of them are going to hell, is that a teaching that you can intellectually or emotionally accept? And if most are not, then what is the point of the statements in the Quran implying that they are?
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Hado
God Bless you sister merry
Hope we will see more and more ex-JW who convert to Islam
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Mrs Smith
I just don't get it. This is going off the topic a bit. Merry posted this thread and many of the post are respectful, posters asking questions and giving their own opinion. Some were encouraging and others were critical, but respectful. I have over the last few months read many posts where Christians have tried to express their thoughts and were shot down and mocked. I don't understand why a muslim post gets this kind of dingity (which I feel is awesome) and a christian post gets regected by most. Why not give everyone this kind of response, are we hanging on to WBTS double standards?
Merry all the best, I wish you all the joy and happiness.
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kerj2leev
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6R6GBZs6z8&mode=related&search=
I'm so sorry for you Merry!
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juni
Oh, that's interesting. In the USA the age of consent was generally 10-12 until 1885, when it was lobbied by women reformers and social purists to raise it to 16.
Thank you Ross for the information. Years ago in an elder/MS meeting (my husband being a MS) this fact about the age of consent was brought out. The brothers were told NOT to inform others of this because it would cause a mass exodus of the teens if it got out within the young people. Isn't that sad?? In the US, there is also the "age of majority" which is 18. I have to research the two to make sure they are two separate laws.
I had brought this out quite awhile back, but didn't know where to find "the proof" about this. The consensus from the posters was that they had never heard of that before - the bit about the 16 year olds.
I'm sorry Merry - kind of off the subject at hand - I was thrilled when Ross put that out there.
I wish you the best in satisfying your spirituality. I do feel the Islamic religion as well as the Christian and others experience huge upheavals through the centuries to purify their beliefs and weeds out (doesn't sound very intellectual, does it?) those who don't want to respect their fellow man - those who use religion for a front to be murderous beings. People forever trying to find the path to their god. Were we meant to attain it through organized religion? I really don't have the answer - I thought I did at one time; not anymore.
Personally, I choose to stay away from organized religion. I don't feel the need to socialize w/those of like faith. I feel it is personal - one on one w/the Creator. I personally feel that all of these manmade philosophies and teachings are useless. I believe it all is very simple and basic. I believe mankind makes it more complex than it is.
Peace, Juni
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LittleToe
MrsSmith:Its an interesting dual standard, isn't it? Its one that I constantly combat. As you'll be well aware, I'm always up to be challenged but it can get a little tedious at times. I'm glad that this thread has been treated with the tolerance and respect that it deserves
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What-A-Coincidence
WAC:I know you can do better than that. Why don't you try entering into discussion instead of blowing it off with a sarcastic one-liner...
Read this...tell me that this religion is not a cult ...would you personally believe this????
Islam Founder: Mohammed
Overview: There are two main texts consulted by Muslims:
the Qur'an (Recitation) are the words of God. Muslims believe that it was revealed to Mohammed by the archangel Jibril (Gabriel). This was originally in oral and written form; they were later assembled together into a single book, the Qur'an. Its name is often spelled "Koran" in English. This is not recommended, as some Muslims find it offensive.
The Hadith, which are collections of the sayings of Muhammad (pbuh). They are regarded as the Sunnah (lived example) of Muhammad. The Quran gives legitimacy to the Hadith. It states: "Nor does he say aught of his own desire. It is no less than inspiration sent down to him" (53:3-4). However, the writings are not regarded as having the same status as the Holy Qur'an; the latter is considered to be God's word. The great Islamic scholar Yahya bin Sharaf Ul-Deen An-Nawawi compiled a collection of 43 sayings of Prophet Mohammed. It is is now known as "Al-Nawawi's Forty Hadiths"
The main difference between Islam and Christianity:
Islam is a religion in which God requires you to send your son to die for him. Christianity is a faith in which God sent his Son to die for you.
Cult Beliefs:
They believe in a single, indivisible God. (God, the creator, is just, omnipotent and merciful. "Allah" is often used to refer to God; it is the Arabic word for God.)
The supremacy of God's will.
They divine scriptures, which include the Torah, the Psalms, the rest of the Bible, (as they were originally revealed) and the Qur'an (which is composed of God's words, dictated by the angel Gabriel to Mohammed).
They believe Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, David, Jesus and Mohammed were messengers of God; Mohammed being the last prophet. Mohammed's message is considered superior to Jesus because Islam's founder is believed to have brought God's final revelation.
They believe that God did not have a son.
They believe that Jesus was only a prophet, born of the virgin Mary. They reject the deity of Jesus; it is seen as a form of polytheism.
They believe Jesus was not executed on the cross, instead He escaped crucifixion and was taken up into Paradise.
The believe in the existence of Satan who drives people to sin.
They believe Muslims who sincerely repent and submit to God return to a state of sinless perfection.
They believe all children are born on Al-Fitra (a pure, natural state of submission to Islam). A person's parents sometimes make them Christian, Jewish, etc.
They believe when a child reaches puberty an account of their deeds is opened in Paradise. When the person dies, their eventual destination (Paradise or Hell) depends on the balance of their good deeds (helping others, testifying to the truth of God, leading a virtuous life) and their bad deeds.
They believe in a day of Judgment when people will be judged on the basis of their deeds while on earth, and will either attain reward of Heaven or punishment in Hell. They do not believe that Jesus or any other individual can atone for another person's sin. Hell is where unbelievers and sinners spend eternity. One translation of the Qur'an, 98:1-8, states: "The unbelievers among the People of the Book and the pagans shall burn for ever in the fire of Hell. They are the vilest of all creatures." ("People of the Book" refers to Christians, Jews and Muslims). Paradise is a place of physical and spiritual pleasure where the sinless go after death.
They believe alcohol, drugs, fornication, eating of pork, and gambling should be avoided; however, once in Paradise, Muslim men may drink as much alcohol as they can and have sex with an unlimited number of young virgins for eternity.
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Caedes
I would submit, however, that its not good science to dismiss anything that you cannot currently prove. This forms the whole basis of scientific enquiry.
LT,
I apologise for answering a point aimed at Kid-A but I think you were a little wide of the mark in your comment above, surely science, in the interests of pragmatism alone would do very well to dismiss things it can't prove.
First and foremost I assume we are talking about falsifiability rather than proof. You could have a hypothesis' that is awaiting 'proof' through experimental testing etc
Somehow I doubt anybody could get much of a research grant to study anything that we are incapable of quantifying. Obviously there is a world of difference between what we can't prove yet and things we will never be able to falsify. As I'm sure you are aware you could always prove me wrong and claim your million!
nitpickingly respectful
Caedes
apologies for the thread hi-jacking
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hillary_step
LT & Mrs Smith,
I have over the last few months read many posts where Christians have tried to express their thoughts and were shot down and mocked. I don't understand why a muslim post gets this kind of dingity (which I feel is awesome) and a christian post gets regected by most. Why not give everyone this kind of response, are we hanging on to WBTS double standards?
I do not think that it is a display of double standards, for a number of reasons.
1) Most people who post to this Board are very knowledgable about Christianity but know very little, if anything about Islam. With many of it is more a fact-finding mission, not a declaration of standards.
2) Merry, as does LT, represents herself with dignity, humility and honesty, qualities very often missing in Christians who post to this Board.
3) Hado, who has come to this Board to preach and peddle his particular brand of religious hypocrisy is being given the same vigorous treatment as would any Christian fundy who comes here to talk at people rather than with people.
It is all in the delivery.
HS