Merry Becomes A Muslim (a bit long) (page 8)

kerj2leev

I do. He's limited himself by his own set of beliefs which currently won't let him explore Islam or Christianity from the inside. A limit is a limit, whichever side of the fence you place yourself...

LT

From the inside of what? Please explain.....

Merry:
If I were you I wouldn't go defending the Prophet on this one. Aisha was most likely 9, with 10 being an upper limit. It was acceptable to the mores of the day, but indefensible by modern standards. Frankly I wouldn't even go there.

Glitter:
If the brand of Islam that Merry were supporting were encouraging paedophilia then you'd have a point, but as it is your comments seem misplaced. Should I reject all Christian denominations because the Catholic church has had its problems (which it appears to be seeking to address)? It would be a very black and white approach to life, much akin to the attitude we learnt from the WTS!

Kerj:

From the inside of what? Please explain.....

I hope you're not being intentionally obtuse. From the inside of those religions, of course... a mile in someone else's shoes, and all that.

I take no brook with his desire to avoid other religions, but acknowledge that it is still a self-emplaced fence due to his belief that they are unworthy of his attention.

kid-A

"I do. He's limited himself by his own set of beliefs which currently won't let him explore Islam or Christianity from the inside. A limit is a limit, whichever side of the fence you place yourself..."

Two issues here. First, I'm guessing that WACs rejection of Islam, Christianity, Judaism, what-have-you, is, similar to my own, predicated on the fact that one does not accept the concept or the reality of the "supernatural" in any format. That being the case, once the possibility of a "supernatural" god-like being has been examined and rejected due to an overwhelming lack of evidence, the "flavour" of belief becomes irrelevant, they are all equally unbelievable.

Second, I agree, a limit is a limit. But we can debate over who has established more limits to their cognitive frameworks. The atheist or agnostic rejects the concept or worshipping of a god after reaching the empirical conclusion that there is simply not sufficient evidence to form that conclusion. Indeed, IMHO, there is as much evidence for god as there is for any other culturally constructed character, be it literary, religious or otherwise. Having said that, if some creature were to make itself known to me and conclusively demonstrate its existence to my faculties of sensation and perception beyond a reasonable doubt, I would unhesitatingly accept the reality of said being. I wouldnt "worship" it, but I would acknowledge its existence with satisfactory evidence.

On the other hand, the vast majority of believers take it as a "given" that there is a supernatural world, regardless of their standard of evidence and will not, for one millisecond, entertain the notion that indeed, we just may be completely alone in the universe, this life is all their is, and when we die, we simply cease to exist. They limit themselves to the notion that they will not obtain their afterlife without offering endless "submission" to some arbitrary god that has supposedly authored some "rule" book which dictates morality, habits, thinking, etc etc. Indeed, they have limited themselves by "needing" to believe in that which they will never be able to prove beyond the non-empirical confines of "faith"....

Who leads the more "limited" life? A human being that simply chooses to actualize their ephemeral existence to its maximum potential while freeing themselves from the chains of primordial superstitions? Or the devoted "believer", who chooses to live under the jackboot of some dictator in the sky, dreamed up by some ancient tribe of barbarians wandering in misery through the desert, forcing them to pray 5 times a day in the direction of some ancient rock in Saudi Arabia, and cover up their human essence with black rags over their heads and faces lest their beloved "god" should disapprove of their infidel behaviour?

I would finally ask the "christians" on the board: is Merry going to hell? I would next ask Merry: Are the christian infidels going to hell? Hmmmmm, I anticipate some "limited" ranges of responses if either polarity is being honest with the dictates of their own "faith" system.....

kerj2leev

I hope you're not being intentionally obtuse. From the inside of those religions, of course... a mile in someone else's shoes, and all that.
I take no brook with his desire to avoid other religions, but acknowledge that it is still a self-emplaced fence due to his belief that they are unworthy of his attention

Not at all LT I was just wondering if you meant the inside of ones self, or the inside of those religions.

LittleToe

Oh, that's interesting. In the USA the age of consent was generally 10-12 until 1885, when it was lobbied by women reformers and social purists to raise it to 16. That's only 122 years ago...

Kerj:
Glad we're on the same page now

Kid:

As you are well aware, I take no issue with your conclusions. I would submit, however, that its not good science to dismiss anything that you cannot currently prove. This forms the whole basis of scientific enquiry.

For a relevant example, people have claimed "spiritual experiences" for as long as there have been people - FACT. Science has not yet empirically proven their source, though there are some excellent and plausible hypothesise.

is Merry going to hell?

To take a very strict Calvinist approach: Not likely, she already stated that she became a Christian at some point in her journey. You don't lose that status by becoming a Muslim.

What-A-Coincidence

Yeah I guess I should follow a religion that tells me how to believe...yeah...that's not limiting my beliefs is it.

Merry Magdalene

Ken: Why do you never hear a Muslin condem blowing up people, including children by their own demented followers?

Valid question. Why don't we hear this condemnation?

http://www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.php

http://www.antiwar.com/ips/janardhan.php?articleid=4064

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1690624.stm

http://www.thedailystar.net/2003/10/15/d31015020530.htm

~Merry

Xena

Everyone is limited in their thinking one way or another. You can either accept those limits and defend them to the death or push past them. Doesn't mean you have to accept everything you find but at least you accept or reject with knowledge and continue to move forward.

interesting thread Merry

kerj2leev

Everyone is limited in their thinking one way or another. You can either accept those limits and defend them to the death or push past them. Doesn't mean you have to accept everything you find but at least you accept or reject with knowledge and continue to move forward

But is that what Merry is doing when she is "becoming a Muslim", how is that moving forward?? Isn't she putting herself in another box?

Merry Magdalene

Kid-A: Are the christian infidels going to hell?

Although the Qur'an describes those who will go to hell so we can do our personal best to make sure we are not among them, judgment is for Allah alone and He reserves the right to pardon who He will. I do not know who is and who is not going to hell.

" Those with Faith, those who are Jews, and the Christians and Sabaeans, all who have Faith in Allah and the Last Day and act rightly, will have their reward with their Lord. They will feel no fear and will know no sorrow." (Surat al-Baqara; 2:62).

" Call to the way of your Lord with wisdom and fair admonition, and argue with them in the kindest way. Your Lord knows best who is misguided from His way. And He knows best who are guided." (Surat an-Nahl; 16:125).

~Merry

Merry Becomes A Muslim (a bit long)

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