Merry? Are there many branches and different beliefs in the Muslim religion? Like in the Christian religion there is the Baptist, Catholic and so on.
Merry Becomes A Muslim (a bit long)
by Merry Magdalene 147 Replies latest jw experiences
-
-
-
Merry Magdalene
I don't seem to be able to post the response I just composed. I keep getting an error message. I will try this as a test.
-
Merry Magdalene
kerj2leev:
Merry are you still searching other religions while you are a Muslim?
I don't really have time, but I am interested in continuing to learn about other religions.
I'm trying to answer everyone in order but am having to save my response to Abaddon as I have been unable to post it for some reason.
~Merry
-
Merry Magdalene
Thanks, tetra and HS and Juni. Peace and best wishes to you too.
Glitter: Merry - do you think you'll be moving to a larger city soon so you can associate with your Muslim brothers and sisters fully? No plans to do. I can't take my daughter away from her father and he won't move, so I'm pretty well tethered it seems. Thanks for the tips though, that was very kind of you. I respect your feelings about early marriage, and I don't think there is any more for me to say on the matter.
Euphamism: Good discussion, Merry! Mind if I keep questioning a little? Not at all.
I do think this is the root of the reaction you're getting. When you say that you have 'become a Muslim', you mean that you have begun practicing your personal understanding of the meaning of the Quran. When other people hear that you have 'become a Muslim', they assume that you have accepted some form of Islam as it is typically practiced. There's a pretty big difference there, IMHO. (Not saying you're wrong to call yourself a Muslim, of course; just that poeple are likely to misunderstand what you mean.) I think I have accepted Islam as it is typically practiced by many, or at least I am trying to learn and practice. What I was saying is that my acceptance of the Qur'an came first and almost independently of that. It didn't remain independant and isolated however.
....Obviously, you're not putting up a smoke-screen; you're a very sincere person, or else you wouldn't be talking to us like this. But I have to wonder, do you think that Allah is going to make an exception for most non-monotheists (polytheists and atheists)? (I realize that the People of the Book have a special status, but that still leaves nearly half the world's population.) If most of them are going to hell, is that a teaching that you can intellectually or emotionally accept? And if most are not, then what is the point of the statements in the Quran implying that they are? I may not be totally clear or correct on this, but as I understand it at this point, Allah will not be unjust to anyone. All will be judged fairly, depending on whether or not they did their best with the knowledge and understanding they had. If they were given the monotheistic Message and its attendant laws and principles, understood it, and still rejected it, fought against it and its followers, sought to alter it, etc., then hell.
Mrs. Smith: I just don't get it. This is going off the topic a bit. Merry posted this thread and many of the post are respectful, posters asking questions and giving their own opinion. Some were encouraging and others were critical, but respectful. I have over the last few months read many posts where Christians have tried to express their thoughts and were shot down and mocked. I don't understand why a muslim post gets this kind of dingity (which I feel is awesome) and a christian post gets regected by most. Why not give everyone this kind of response, are we hanging on to WBTS double standards? This is an interesting observation and I hope more will add their own observations and perspectives to it. My own observation is that Islam and Muslims as a topic have been treated very disrespectfully here, for the most part. That is why I originally started talking about it and giving my viewpoint on matters. And yet I have been treated very respectfully on an individual level. I'm glad. I think it is much easier to have useful discussions that way. I don't wish for anyone to be treated badly. Thanks for your comments in that regard, LT and HS! Good points. Although Hado may have got off on the wrong foot and stumbled into a hornets' nest here, I don't find him to be at all an unpleasant or hypocritical person.
No worries about the harmless hi-jacking, Caedes.TopHat: Merry? Are there many branches and different beliefs in the Muslim religion? Like in the Christian religion there is the Baptist, Catholic and so on. I do not know much about it myself yet, so I do not know if this is correct, but here is a link that talks about that-- http://en.allexperts.com/e/d/di/divisions_of_islam.htm But the Qur’an says: “And hold fast, all of you together to the rope of Allah, and be not divided among yourselves.” (3:103) http://www.pakistanlink.com/Opinion/2004/July04/2/08.html I know there are some Sunnis and Shias who feel that their holding to the essentials of Islam (the 5 Pillars of worship and the basic beliefs) unites them in Islam in spite of their other divisions.
~Merry -
Merry Magdalene
Abaddon, I always feel a mixture of dread and delight when you show up.
As an educated moden woman, how do you integrate your understanding of natural processes of the female body (like menstration) with Qur'anic et. al. dictats on this?
Allah obviously made women to bleed. We know this is nothing fearful or dirty. Yet women cannot "participarte in he performance of prayers" whilst menstrating. This is about as logical as a command from god as men not being able to pray whilst undergoing spermatogenesis, yet given the very frequent fear of menstration in primative cultures such as Islam stemmed from (and Judaism too) it is all to logical that a man might think this. Yes, menstruation is natural and not fearful, but I would argue that it is dirty. Not in the sense of bad, shameful, evil, or contaminating to men, but in the most natural sense. Before prayer, men and women are both required to cleanse themselves after sleeping, defecating, urinating, vomiting, bleeding or oozing from a wound, etc. So why is it unfair for women to not be able to pray until after they stop bleeding (both menstrual and post-partum) and are able to cleanse themselves? As well as showing respect to Allah, from my own experience I would say it is a kindness and a mercy to be exempt from fasting and from salat prayer at those times. And we can still make du'a prayer. http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/w_islam/impur.htm
And female Imams; if women are equal, why don't we them?I think it is because there is no Prophetic tradition that can be pointed to for having women lead men in prayer (many agree that they can lead other women in prayer, and some say they can also lead unqualified men in prayer within their own households) and there are some proofs for why they should not. I have not done much research on it as it has been a non-issue for me. There are some who are pushing for this. I wonder why. Is it for the sake of Allah or for their own sake? By asking these questions I do not believe I am judging women for wanting this or wanting not to wear hijab. It is simply a reminder that as Muslims we must always question our own motives in order to purify ourselves, and we must encourage each other to do this as well. I feel that there are very important, legitimate issues of oppression and discrimination that should be addressed, but I do not think this is one of them.
When Imam Shakir was addressing this issue here, I liked this point:
Islam has never advocated a liberationist philosophy. Our fulfillment in this life will never come as the result of breaking real or perceived chains of oppression. That does not mean that we should not struggle against oppressive practices and institutions. However, when we understand that success in such worldly struggles has nothing to do with our fulfillment as human beings, we will be able to keep those struggles in perspective, and not be moved to frustration or despair when their outcomes are counter to our plans.
Our fulfillment does not lie in our liberation, rather it lies in the conquest of our soul and its base desires That conquest only occurs through our enslavement to God. Our enslavement to God in turn means that we have to suppress many of our souls’ desires and inclinations. Therein lies one of the greatest secrets to unleashing our real human potential. This is so because it is our human potential that separates us from the rest of this creation, and it is to the extent that we are able to conquer our physical nature that we realize that spiritual potential.
We must all realize that we will never achieve any meaningful change in our situation relying on our own meager resources. The great sage Ibn ‘Ata Allah as-Sakandari has said, "Nothing you seek through your Lord will ever be difficult; and nothing you seek through yourself will ever be easy." 77 Now is the time to give ourselves to our Lord, totally. The trials and tribulations we are currently witnessing will only intensify as we move closer to the end of time. If we are not living for our Lord, relying on His guidance and help, and trusting in His wisdom, we will find it very difficult to negotiate our way through this world.
When we live for our Lord it becomes easy to live with each other. If in our personal relations we can come to embody the spirit of mutual love, mercy and affection, encouraged by our Prophet, peace and blessings of God be upon him, we will be able to make a beautiful and lasting contribution towards the uplift of men and women alike. The times we live in cry out for such a contribution. The question is, "Who will respond?"
Isn't it all a but 'all are equal but some are less equal than others' double-speak? You will probably continue to feel this way no matter what I say, and I will continue to feel otherwise. I only hope none of us will let our perspective on this obscure the more important issues that need to be addressed. I am sure you feel that 'equal but different' and 'equity not equality' are just more ways of masking unfairness while I feel that they are ways of explaining a fairness that many just don't like. Here is another quote I like, taken from a discussion on female Imams: (sorry I couldn't change the font size)
What we so often forget is that God has honored women by giving them value in relation to God - not in relation to men. But as Western feminism erases God from the scene, there is no standard left but men. As a result, the Western feminist is forced to find her value in relation to a man. And in so doing, she has accepted a faulty assumption. She has accepted that man is the standard, and thus a woman can never be a full human being until she becomes just like a man-the standard.
Very interesting to read you past experiences. I find it especially interesting you were interested in paganism and Wicca, both of which seem at poles to your current beliefs. Thanks. Yes, very different. No one could be more surprised at my changes than me, except maybe my best friend.
Do you feel you were less certain in the past (about the validity of your former beliefs) and are more certain now? Or do you feel the certainty you feel now is the same as the certainty you felt in the past? Do you preclude feeling yet more certain about different beliefs in the future? If so why? I feel that I have always been equally certain about my beliefs, jumping in with both feet so as to gain the fullest experience, while yet continuing to question and explore and challenge from 'within' that experience. Unfortunately hindsight cannot be applied to the present. I do believe in looking before you leap, but, for me, it can't be all looking and no leaping.
~Merry
-
bernadette
Merry, I'm just curious cos when I was growing up we used to have small groups of travelling sufis visiting our area and they'd put on a show for everybody. To me they were such a liberated, happy band of people - it was even whispered that they tolerated homosexuality - we did not feel judgemental just awestruck.
Now that I am questioning everything, what do I find - the sufis fall into the group we speak of of as mystics and they all beliieve and have believed (down through the ages) the same things through their own experiences.
I notice though that you have labelled such experiences as 'romanticism'. Do you therefore discard them or have you put them on hold as it were.
bernadette
-
LittleToe
Merry:
Allah will not be unjust to anyone.
There's a marked difference between justice and mercy, as illustrated by the following anecdote:.
A capured deserter was due to be shot by Napoleon Boneparte. His mother begged for pardon, to which Boneparte is alleged to have said "what has he done to deserve mercy?", to which she replied "if he had deserved it then it would not be mercy!".
Bernadette:
If I were to turn to Islam then I like to think it would be the mystical Sufi, although the Whirling Dervishes are perhaps a little OTT for my tastes -
zagor
I find Merry's decision refreshing actually. I don't necessarily agree with her views on life but I salute people who dare to be different despite bigotry and overwhelming stupidity of those around them. I think her new views will bring another flavor to this forum and 'god' knows we need people like that here. Danger is not so much in religion itself or most ideologies for that matter, but in attempt to forcefully impose those views on others. Some of those who oppose islam for alleged limitations of choice and freedom are doing exactly the same by trying to impose their limiting views on others about the islam.
Fundamentalist Christianity is just as dangerous and fundamentalist Islam, no difference there. Any religion or ideology that limits the freedom of thought, rational research and impartial investigation is indeed dangerous. If we are to list those I would start with many "christian" denominations.... -
tijkmo
merry are you still writing songs..
i was working with a muslim boy at the weekend...and what started as an interesting conversation about religious beliefs soon turned into - 'i am right and you are damned' .
in the end i just ended up agreeing with him cos i couldnt be bothered arguing (shouting in a nightclub is not in anyway condusive to productive conclusions which is why i guess most conversations are of the get your coat you've pulled variety) and i couldnt get away...
i did tell him i had a friend who had recently converted...thats you merry btw....and he said to ask you some stuff.
notable in what decent conversation we had before the music started blaring was that
1. he did not condemn the fanatics
2. he did not agree that there were different types of muslims..sunni shiite etc are all the same seemingly.
3. he said that while people convert to islam from other religions, no-one ever converts to other religions from islam - something i was able to refute on the basis of knowing that i am aware of muslims that became jws - one of whom was killed by the father. i made the point to him that given the threat of death if they were going to change a limited conversion rate is hardly surprising.
4. not allowed to eat ham..(he thought he was unique in this - didnt seem to realise that jews arent either)
5. not allowed to touch far less drink alchohol...but have no objection to tobacco. - seemingly imbibing alchohol at all can potentially lead to overindulgence and cause someone to act stupidly...and this is far more serious than dying of tobacco related diseases.
did you get the emailed songs btw.
ian