I went to the Memorial.

by RichieRich 97 Replies latest jw friends

  • valkyrie
    valkyrie

    My opinion (worth either 2 cents or decades of life-wages, depending on one's vantage point):

    Richie [how I admire him!] showed his former congregation and his mother that he is to be considered [at least] their equal in all things. Why should his mother or any of his judges be given a pass to feel that they have free and exclusive rein to injure, slight, hurt, shun or exclude simply because they believe that they are right in their beliefs and actions? Their training inculcates them to think that God-given power to express displeasure (to former or disapproved members) is entirely in their hands, and that like power to extend forgiveness and social/spiritual/psychic 'resurrection' is also their prerogative. His mother, apparently, holds this view as well -- seeing her son and his affective sphere as her own creation... to manipulate and shape at will. It is actually healthful for her to be forced out of a comfortable, I-am-at-the-centre-of-the-universe zone and to see her son as his own creature, having his own will and his own valid reasoning and impulses.

    So, she cried. One of the advantages of having had JW-religious training (if one *had* to be 'born into' a nominally Christian religion) is that we avoided the cult of Marianism (over-the-top veneration of Mary, mother of Jesus) and its common extension to the worship of mothers simply because of their position of motherhood -- no matter what the quality of their actual mothering skills. In the absence of a pedestal, it should be obvious that one's mother should be valued, appreciated and dealt with as with any other fallible human: on the basis of her character and her actions. There is no free pass! Naturally, one is inclined to give a mother more opportunities to sound her character and to correct injurious dealings than one allows to other connections; however, to sit back and swallow a lifetime of one-way directed judgmentalism or condemnation, and even to invite more by leaving open the door to one's life with no expectations of mutual respect and honour, is immature and unnecessarily self-deprecating. This is not a reasonable enactment of the Fourth Commandment.

    Richie's mother does not have a child; she gave birth to a child, who is now an adult human. The sooner she can see him as a man in his own right - one whom she should make an effort to match in growing up (for parents *do* have to grow up and out of the mindset of babytalk, diapers, feeding, nursing and shepherding... no easy task after 15+ years in a role begun after one's own mental and emotional fast-growth period has ended) - the sooner their relationship can mature and become mutually nurturing.
    In the meanwhile, I think it is healthy that Richie refuses to deny the progression of his own maturation and his growing intellectual and emotional dependence. By making clear his own standards for a relationship (mutual respect, agreement optional), he is in essence raising his mother. As he sometimes cried under the rigours of her training - yet grew tall, straight and strong, so cries she under his. Hopefully, she grows too.

    -V

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    Richie,

    Would it have been possible for you to leave the truth without estranging your mother? Why didn't you simply fade away like so many do?

    Sure a bee can sting, but why provoke it? I don't get it.

    I honestly worry that people on this forum who have been goading you on through your various stunts are also partly responsible.

    Slim

  • Crumpet
    Crumpet
    Would it have been possible for you to leave the truth without estranging your mother? Why didn't you simply fade away like so many do?

    Not all of us are capable of the duplicity that involves. I certainly wasnt. There was no way I was going to spend my life looking over my shoulder, dressing as they expected, checking the road outside before I brought a man in etc! My life is complicated enough without having to lie all the time.

    Its a no compromise stance true, but why should anyone make such a huge compromise as pretending to be something they are not for an whole life? Its efefctively exchanging one set of prison bars for another and thats no way to live.

    I'm a crap liar anyway and my parents knew me too well. They'd have seen straight through me and reported me, just as I suspect Richie's mama would have too.

  • NewYork44M
    NewYork44M

    Way to go RR!

    Erika is wearing a red strapless dress that comes down barely to her knee. Her hair is up all pretty-like, and she's wearing a gorgeous necklace that some handsome fellow (cough) bought for her.

    Damn, it would be worth going to the memorial to see such a beautiful sight.

  • Dansk
    Dansk

    (((((Ian))))):

    I didn't go last night and I have wondered whether it's better to stay away knowing my mum will be upset, or go and give her false hope.

    Personally, I wouldn't set foot in a Kingdom Hall again. I refuse to listen to any more lies and to help put the numbers of the congregation up.

    Ian

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    Richie:
    You've certainly got balls

    Slim:

    Would it have been possible for you to leave the truth without estranging your mother? Why didn't you simply fade away like so many do?

    Your first error is in still calling it "the truth". Sometimes you have to do what you have to do. Fading is not for everyone just as DAing is not for everyone. To each their own, for there is a price to pay either way.

    Apparently I managed to make my dad cry. Not something I'm proud of, but neither something that I had much control over, as I maintain that my course of action in DAing was the right one for my circumstances. To each their own.

    Sure a bee can sting, but why provoke it? I don't get it.

    Unless you've walked a mile in his shoes you won't get it.

    I honestly worry that people on this forum who have been goading you on through your various stunts are also partly responsible.

    He's got his own mind, as he has proven time and time again. Regularly he makes his own decisions then comes here to discuss them to get a reality check. I don't think he's the kind of guy who needs accolades or sycophants, as he has his own spine. If you read his previous thread you will see that there were opinions on both sides of the fence, over this, with noone encouraging him to intentionall hurt his mother.

    Dansk:I couldn't agree more.

  • free2think
    free2think

    Wow, that was so beautifully written. I could see it all happening as I was reading. I loved the in the non smoking section comment, classic. Thank you for sharing.

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    Little Toe,

    I don't believe in "truth" at all, but if someone believes this particular religion then it's "the truth" to them. I don't think it is any less/more true than any other religion. Sometimes I say it's the truth, sometimes I say it's "the truth" or "troof". Frankly I don't care what you call it, just so long as I am not forced to stick with one particular label. Just as I won't be convinced to call it the truth by a Witness, so I won't be made to put it in inverted commas either just to conform to what people on this forum think. When Jehovah's Witnesses call their religion "the truth" they are not in error. And neither are you in error for disagreeing. I believe "error" is a label of oppression. I will try not to use it, especially not to describe people I disagree with.

    I am glad you left the way you did for selfish reasons actually: it sure gave us all something to talk about! I heard that your dad followed you out the hall and cried, but I am not sure it would have been easier for him if you left gradually. It was probably cathartic for the congregation, as it was for you. And if you still feel best with it, then that makes it good too. Others I am sure could criticise it from all sorts of angles, but I don't have a dog in that fight and I have learned to be satisfied that you are happy. It constantly surprises me that people like your dad still take the religion seriously. But I think it just shows that some people have a lot more invested in the religion than I ever did. I am puzzled why more people don't leave. But I have to learn to think bigger.

    I visited your congregation a few months before you left and I remember something. Maybe some of the details I forget, but I think this is how I remember it, in August 2001 or thereabouts. There were lots of people over at your parents' house and I was there and so were you. At some point you and another elder took one of the younger sisters upstairs (was there an upstairs?) for an interview to see if she qualified to become an unbaptised publisher or even baptised, I'm not sure. But when she came back she related she was proud she knew the answer to an unexpected difficult question. What was it we all wanted to know. My goodness the stupidity of it just was staggering. It was something like: "should someone with AIDS go to a book study in someone's house?" I thought to myself what on earth is that all about. How is that relevant? I remember thinking how shocking it was that a reasonable-seeming sort of person like you go along with such a thoroughly weird set up. I am not surprised when people leave the Witnesses. I am more surprised when people stay, like how I was surprised that you were a Witness that day. When you left a few months after, that was the normal bit! I also felt the same when you told us about your trip to Kenya, but I mentioned that already.

    As for Richie, well I just feel things did not need to turn out so bad. If he had given his mum some way of saving face and retaining her dignity, she might have acted more reasonably. It might have made no difference granted. Who knows? And I worry about him making patterns on his body that he can't erase. It seems he wants to bind his future self into a position where his bodily appearance would prevent him from reversing his decision to leave the Witnesses. I wish he did not feel like that. I don't worry about what I will do in the future, not because I feel "settled", but because I feel more comfortable with my fluctuations now. Richie may ensure he cannot go back to the Witnesses because of his appearance, but he is also closing down other options in life needlessly. We have enough options in life closed down for us without adding to them ourselves. And I feel some get a perverse thrill out of seeing him do things they "wish they had the guts to do themselves" or some such silly notion. But that's a bit selfish because he is a real human being out there somewhere with a mother who is crying.

    Slim

  • rebel8
    rebel8

    Richie,

    Consider sending that to some newspapers, and just add a few explanations about shunning. Maybe they will publish it as a human interest story. It would make for an interesting story--the general public can't imagine what it's like to be shunned.

    :)

  • Nosferatu
    Nosferatu

    Where's the pics of what you looked like? I'd LOVE to see! Reminds me of going to a KH funeral with my (ex)girlfriend and my long hair

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