The serious conversation with the wife about the cult- part 2 (page 3)

zack

Awesome, OTWO! You need to do what you need to do. Your wife will eventually follow. She's too smart not to!

AK - Jeff

R6Laser - Just bookmark this thread. OTWO is doing it just right for one who wants to fade. You may need his advise someday yourself, when you finally see the real truth.

Clearly, he is not whining about the elder's lack of concern - he has played it that way - to try and save his marriage and his sanity in leaving the LIE.

Geeez.

Jeff

OnTheWayOut

Thanks Jeff, for responding to R6Laser. Now, I will add some more.

You have all the publications, hell you were an elder, what else do you need. If you want to leave just leave. Stop acting
like a spoiled little brat. Which is what you were acting like when you made your comment, "care about your 99 other sheep
and forget about the 1." Shees, do you want to get out or are you just like everybody else here, you want to prove them
wrong and make yourself look right. Amazing, people even complain when they are not gettting counsel on their way out.

I have not wanted counsel. I am happy to look things up in the publications for myself, and these men know
I have years of experience doing that. I had no intention of trying to make myself look right in their eyes.
I "complain" about not getting counsel, so they can further leave me alone.

Explaination-
If the elders and the CO spend some time trying to readjust someone who is losing faith in the WTS doctrine,
they expect that person to just accept what they say. They expect you to fall back in line. If you don't, it is
highly likely that they will find a reason to DF you.

If the elders and CO did not spend much time trying to readjust you, they could wait until they want to catch you
in disagreement with the WTS doctrines, and quickly offer counsel. Such counsel denied, they could quickly go
to a Judicial matter and DF you.

If the elders and CO did not spend much time trying to readjust you, and you act as if you are stumbled by their
inactions, they just might recognize that they didn't try to "snatch you out of the fire" as they were instructed.
Because they didn't do their job, they just might say, "He is weak and has doubts. The elder's manual says
we can skip the Judicial matter. Better to let him have doubts than to have to face the appeals committee explaining
why we didn't do our job. As long as he doesn't come to the Hall telling others about his doubts, let him go. Forget
about him."

That last scenario is a best possible situation, but the first two are almost always the reality.

Thanks everyone for your encouragement and thoughts. I will try to reply to a few more of your comments in a few days,
but I am on a short vacation (spending time with the wife, rejuvenating our love. I had actually hoped to have this talk
with her AFTER our vacation, but she sensed the problem DURING it.)

ex-nj-jw

Way to go OTWO, I think your wife will soon follow.

nj

undercover

I was anxious to read this thread yesterday but couldn't access it when the board was frozen up.

So, today I got to read it and am glad that things are progressing for your "fade". I hope all the best for you as you try to release your wife's bonds.

I also have a comment about R6Laser's post:

So in one hand you want to get out, turn in your letter of resignation to the body of elders. Then you complain about them not trying to baby you back in. What the hell? I would think that's the first thing you would want. If you want to leave, then leave. Don't make a big issue, well they are not telling me what to do, or they should be more caring. Wow, you're a grown man who used to be an elder. You said yourself you know their games. So the other elders know that you as a grown man can make this decisions without being hounded. I agree with the comment the other elder made to you. You have all the publications, hell you were an elder, what else do you need. If you want to leave just leave. Stop acting like a spoiled little brat. Which is what you were acting like when you made your comment, "care about your 99 other sheep and forget about the 1." Shees, do you want to get out or are you just like everybody else here, you want to prove them wrong and make yourself look right. Amazing, people even complain when they are not gettting counsel on their way out.

I've always appreciated Laser's analytical, logical approach to the issues surrounding JWs and the WTS. I try also to use those same approaches when dealing with all things JW. But we can't ignore that, despite our best efforts at times, emotions will play a part in our escape from the clutches of the cult. We were either converted using some degree of emotion or raised in the religion with the help of emotion. It's only natural that emotion will play a part as we leave.

I understand what is like to raise questions to the elders but yet at the same time expect them to give me my space. You want answers, but you don't want to be harrassed. I personally wanted to talk to a couple of the elders that I considered friends in an "off the record" type of conversation. It was a little disheartening to realize that they wanted no part of that kind of conversation.

Therefore, I know the disappointment of realizing that the elders aren't obeying your wishes to be left alone, they're ignoring you because you present a challenge to them. You present a danger to the congregation. So its easier for them to pretend to grant your wish of leaving you alone, all the while they're hoping that you'll just go away and not cause problems.

And it's that ignoring that creates an emotional quandry. Yes, we want to be left alone, but yet all those years of being taught that the elders were there to shepard, to comfort, to counsel...we expected them to show more concern and care. So it is upsetting to some degree when we realize that they just don't really give a damn about our concerns or our doubts or even us as a person. That's when we realize that our friendships and relationships with these men were all conditional...conditional that we were obedient to "mother", the organization.

I get the feeling that our friend Laser had the unique oppurtunity to leave the religion with little or no dire consequences, maybe at a young age before being too emotionally caught up in the whole thing. Because of that, I think that maybe he doesn't understand the emotional aspects of trying to leave in the manner that OTWO is attempting. I could be wrong, and I'm sure Laser will let me know, but it does explaing the practical, logical way of looking at the situation without realizing the full emotinoal impact.

OnTheWayOut

If you want to leave, then leave. Don't make a big issue, well they are not telling me what to do, or they should be more caring.

To be fair with them, they seem to be allowing me to "just leave." Some on the JWD have said that they were
able to do that. The problem would occur afterward. After I just leave, they might decide to act as if they have
been helpful, and if I don't straighten up, have a JC on apostacy. If I point out that they have not been helpful,
it makes it harder to do that.

Undercover's comments are true enough:

And it's that ignoring that creates an emotional quandry. Yes, we want to be left alone, but yet all those years of being taught that the elders were there to shepard, to comfort, to counsel...we expected them to show more concern and care. So it is upsetting to some degree when we realize that they just don't really give a damn about our concerns or our doubts or even us as a person. That's when we realize that our friendships and relationships with these men were all conditional...conditional that we were obedient to "mother", the organization.

I commented on the CO's bum's rush that I know enough to offer to listen to a person, offer to pray with them over
the matter, and offer some kind of assistance- even if that is all lip service. An overseer can at least APPEAR to be
caring, then shrug his shoulders and say "There's nothing more I can do for you."

Don't get me wrong, I have made it clear in my threads that the CO's lack of help, and the elders' not "snatching my out
of the fire" have worked well for my fade. I have been very pleased with their "efforts."

The official statements to the public of WTS is that people are free to leave. While that may be true, they are able to
convince my mother to never speak to me again. That might not happen, probably won't, but why find out what they
might do. I think (and many agree) I am better off complaining and playing their game. If they don't play, then the game
is over and no harm done. If they do play, I was prepared.

moshe

Well, this will tell you what type of character your wife has and her loyalty to your marriage. I'll be watching for the other shoe to drop- but I think you might win this one- good luck!

Amber Rose

Congratulations on no more meetings! It really feels good to quit. I believe that your wife will eventually join you. It gets awfully tiresome enduring the " oh, is your husband not feeling well? why hasen't he been here? tell him we miss him." three times a week. And you know they don't mean it. When Drew quit meetings the mock sympathy from the "friends" made the meetings 100 times worse for me. Hopefully the same will happen for your wife, and if she already has doubts...seems like things are looking up!

unique1

THAT IS WONDERFUL!!!

That is what my hubby did to and look where I am now.

OnTheWayOut

THAT IS WONDERFUL!!!
That is what my hubby did to and look where I am now.

You made my day.

The serious conversation with the wife about the cult- part 2

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