Undocumented Aliens - Further Exploitation

by bluesapphire 65 Replies latest jw friends

  • sammielee24
    sammielee24
    There is enough blame to go around on this issue. Liberal, conservative, Democrat and Republican all have much to answer for

    Although there is enough blame to go around, lets begin at the bottom. The blame first and formost lie in the hiring of illegals by the people. If the people didn't hire them they wouldn't be here. Pretty simple. Let that extend to those who use them to do jobs that contractors would normally do, like build decks, landscape, clean. If the people employing the illegals weren't committing an illegal act by hiring them, then the problem wouldn't mushroom like it has.

    As for exploitation. Everyone is exploited at various forks in the road by corporations that run the country - the contractors that can't compete against the lower wages paid to illegals; the cost of food and gas; utilities; health care; education...at some time, in some place, all people feel exploited by the system.

    A good guest worker program does work. It's used in many other countries with great success. It allows the worker to come into the country legally, work legally, pay their dues legally and return home at the end of the contract. A good worker will prove his/her worth to their employer who will sponsor that person again as a guest worker, coming to a job waiting for him/her instead of standing on a street corner with another 50 people fighting for work. Anything can be done - if there is the will and the determination for change. sammieswife.

  • carla
    carla

    an interesting blog on the issue---

    Recently large demonstrations have taken place across the country protesting
    the fact that Congress is finally addressing the issue of illegal immigration.

    Certain people are angry that the US might protect its own borders, might make it harder to sneak into this country and, once here, to stay indefinitely.

    Let me see if I correctly understand the thinking behind these protests. Let's say I break into your house. Let's say that when you discover me in your house, you insist that I leave. But I say, "I've made all the beds and washed the dishes and did the laundry and swept the floors. I've done all the things you don't like to do. I'm hard-working and honest (except for when I broke into your house). According to the protesters:

    a. You are Required to let me stay in your house
    b. You are Required to add me to your family's insurance plan
    c. You are Required to Educate my kids
    d. You are Required to Provide other benefits to me and to my family

    If you try to call the police or force me out, I will call my friends who will picket your house carrying signs that proclaim my RIGHT to be there.

    It's only fair, after all, because you have a nicer house than I do, and I'm just trying to better myself. I'm a hard-working and honest, person, except for well, you know, I did break into your house.

    And what a deal it is for me!!! I live in your house, contributing only a fraction of the cost of my keep, and there is nothing you can do about it without being accused of cold, uncaring, selfish, prejudiced, and bigoted behavior. Oh yeah, I DEMAND that you to learn MY LANGUAGE!!! so you can communicate with me.

    Why can't people see how ridiculous this is?!

  • Big Tex
    Big Tex
    Read the initial post. Could you do this?

    Yes I did this. But please note my comment regarding Bush's plan, which I understand is what your initial post was referencing:

    And the Bush plan is, in my opinion, a farcical joke.

    Please believe me, I am no fan of George Bush. However, this is a somewhat complex problem that is not solved in sound bites. It would be much more likely an equitable and fair solution could be found if Congress and the President were truly interested in actually solving immigration reform! But they're not.

    The laws defeat their own purpose and set up the "illegal system".

    Now are you referring to the current immigration laws? Or the ones proposed by Bush?

    For what it's worth, I think the current immigration process needs to be greatly streamlined. For someone to currently become a legal citizen requires a couple of thousand dollars, many hours standing in line and a couple of years for your effort. That's ridiculous.

    BUT, I submit that just because laws are cumbersome, slow and bureaucratic, doesn't mean it's okay to ignore them. If 12 million people want to come to America, then do so within the parameters of established law. If activists and advocates behind those 12 million people think their lot is unfair, then work to change existing law. Come up with real solutions, not slogans.

    At least that's how I feel.

    This is done on purpose to satisfy the need for cheap labor and a group to exploit. Not only the U.S. has such a system. The Nicaraguans are exploited in the same way in Costa Rica.

    I won't disagree with you, but I once read an article about how Mexico treats immigrants from Central America that makes the 12 million people's plight here seem quite a bit easier in comparison.

    Again I'll say I see no one in this issue who has clean hands.

    Oh btw, I forgot to say howdy back to you!

    Chris

  • Big Tex
    Big Tex

    Ah Terry, I finally found it. Full article here:

    http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/03/06/dobbs.march7/index.html

    I hate when people copy and paste entire web pages, so I'll just copy over what I found particularly interesting.

    The same corporate lobbyists and dominant special interests that drove last year's legislation are even more energetic this year, and they're enthusiastically helping Senator Kennedy write the new legislation. The biggest business lobby in the country, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, and its associated organization, the Essential Worker Immigration Coalition, are actually writing parts of the bill, presumably so that none of our other senators would be unfairly burdened by actually doing their own work. Or perhaps in Senator Kennedy's estimation, they simply don't have the intellectual wherewithal to tackle the required mental heavy-lifting.

    and

    The Chamber of Commerce itself is feverish with expectation, confident their reform bill will certainly keep wages depressed. The Chamber claims there's a labor shortage in many of these industries: construction, housing services, leisure and hospitality. And that's where the cleverly named Essential Worker Immigration Coalition comes in. Founded, staffed and supported by the Chamber itself, the coalition is made up of the same industries claiming they desperately need more workers.

    But there is a non-trivial disconnect here: In each of those industries, a labor shortage leads to higher wages. Unfortunately for the EWIC and the Chamber, and really for American workers, real wages in those industries have been declining, suggesting a very real surplus, not a deficit, of unskilled labor. Yet this President and this Congress continues to push the adoption of a guest-worker program. It's no wonder they have matching approval ratings in the low 30s.

    Real wages in the overall construction sector have fallen nearly 2 percent since the start of the decade and nearly 4 percent since the recent wage peak in 2003. Construction workers in 2006 were making the same per-hour salary as they did in 1965 (measured in 1982 dollars). Landscaping workers have also seen real wages fall by nearly 4 percent since 2001. For the leisure and hospitality sector, workers are making the same per-hour salary as they did in 1972.

    and finally (I swear)

    Also meeting with Sen. Kennedy this week is the Archbishop of Los Angeles, Cardinal Roger Mahoney. The good senator is rounding up all of the usual suspects to lead the charge in advance of his introduction of the amnesty legislation, expected within the next week or two.

    Cardinal Mahoney has said point blank that his followers should disregard laws on immigration as a matter of Catholic conscience. This is the same Cardinal who fought all the way to the Supreme Court to keep secret all documents related to pedophilia among priests. But the Cardinal and other Catholic leaders are quick to embrace the laws of bankruptcy protection in order to not compensate victims of sexual abuse by members of the clergy and keep them out of the U.S. judicial system. So far, five such dioceses have done just that.

    >sigh<

    We're asking hypocritical hypocrites to solve a real problem.

  • heathen
    heathen

    Yes, it's really a good thing to want anyone who is different from us out out out! Let's put them all in the colleseum and nuke it.

    I never said that and it's not just because they are different , it's because they came here illegally. You just make a mistake on your income tax some time and see how the government treats you . There is an entire network set up giving these people fake SS numbers and birth certificates . Something needs to be done about that . The corruption is rampant . They would steal the bread out of your mouth given half a chance ................

  • itsallgoodnow
    itsallgoodnow

    interesting blog, carla.

    I admit I don't really know much about this issue, but the way I see it, they think a lot of the money Mexicans make ends up going back to help families in Mexico, or other central american countries. The US govt is facing huge debt with the war, and wants some of that money for itself.

    If people don't like what some big US corporations are doing by hiring obviously non-legal below-minimum wage earning contractors, vote with your feet and don't purchase food or whatever from them.

    Like someone said above, Subway and Wendy's seems to be doing it, and it wouldn't surprise me if Walmart was doing it too.

    I understand why so many people would want to get out of central america but it does bring up some problems here. Most of them end up in the US. So many other countries around the world seem to get a lot of other people from different third world countries, but I would bet the US gets most if not all from central and south america, most coming illegally.

    It's a huge problem. I definitely see why they would want to come here, but if they can't do it legally, they can only expect to be exploited. In other lands, they would be sex slaves, here they work at Wendy's, get health care and police protection. I'd say we aren't so awful to our illegal immigrants. We didn't force them to cross the border, and their labor brings our prices down, which is why we don't complain.

  • bluesapphire
    bluesapphire
    Read the initial post. Could you do this?

    Yes I did this. But please note my comment regarding Bush's plan, which I understand is what your initial post was referencing:

    No I didn't mean could you do this as in read the post. Of course I know you can read it. What I meant was, could you comply with these demands?

    And the Bush plan is, in my opinion, a farcical joke.

    Please believe me, I am no fan of George Bush. However, this is a somewhat complex problem that is not solved in sound bites. It would be much more likely an equitable and fair solution could be found if Congress and the President were truly interested in actually solving immigration reform! But they're not.

    It is complex because it is political. The bottom line is that we NEED the cheap labor but the politicians need to keep the people happy. So they make the problem more complex than it has to be. I agree with you 100% that they are not TRULY INTERESTED in solving the problem. That's because there really is no problem for the country. The benefits of the undocumented aliens far outweigh any costs. But it would be political suicide to say this.

    The laws defeat their own purpose and set up the "illegal system".

    Now are you referring to the current immigration laws? Or the ones proposed by Bush?

    Current and proposed. No one is interested in finding a true solution which would not allow human beings to be exploited.

    For what it's worth, I think the current immigration process needs to be greatly streamlined. For someone to currently become a legal citizen requires a couple of thousand dollars, many hours standing in line and a couple of years for your effort. That's ridiculous.

    It costs $1000 to become a citizen. I am not a citizen but I am a legal resident. Every year the price goes up. All you have to do is fill out the paperwork, pay the fee, take the test and be sworn in. It's the money that gets you in!

    BUT, I submit that just because laws are cumbersome, slow and bureaucratic, doesn't mean it's okay to ignore them. If 12 million people want to come to America, then do so within the parameters of established law. If activists and advocates behind those 12 million people think their lot is unfair, then work to change existing law. Come up with real solutions, not slogans.

    Advocates ARE AND HAVE BEEN trying to change existing law and bring the many problems with the law to light. It's a huge battle. In the meantime, people shouldn't have to starve. Open the borders to the people. Our country should be welcoming to immigrants the way it always has been. It was built on the backs of immigrants.

    At least that's how I feel.

    This is done on purpose to satisfy the need for cheap labor and a group to exploit. Not only the U.S. has such a system. The Nicaraguans are exploited in the same way in Costa Rica.

    I won't disagree with you, but I once read an article about how Mexico treats immigrants from Central America that makes the 12 million people's plight here seem quite a bit easier in comparison.

    I heard the same thing. But that's probably why people don't want to live in Mexico. Regardless, I wouldn't want to say, "Well we can exploit people the way we do because Mexico is worse." Would you?

    Again I'll say I see no one in this issue who has clean hands.

    Oh btw, I forgot to say howdy back to you!

  • MinisterAmos
    MinisterAmos
    no school taxes or any other for that matter

    Let's not tell fibs, folks!

    Everyone who lives in a dwelling in the US pays school taxes. MOST (and I can qualify that using my personal observations and school records) illegals do NOT cross the border with their kids, therefore they pay taxes but do not utilize services. The local HS and Middle School has ONE ESOL teacher with a total of six kids from four countries that she teaches. There are still a boat load of illegals here left over from the hurricane repair. I'm in a foreign language congo so I visit their enclaves constantly, who has more first hand experience than me?

    Anyone who would really like to investigate this phenomenae can call the ESOL instructor at your local school and ask how many kids she is teaching and from what countries. When there are 1,500 Mexicans living in an apartment complex, and only 2 Mexican children in ESOL, then it becomes obvious that they leave their children at home when they come here to work.

    Anyway I'm just trying to illustrate that they pay taxes but do not use taxes in proportion.

  • MinisterAmos
    MinisterAmos
    Like someone said above, Subway and Wendy's seems to be doing it,

    Actually what I wrote is that Corporations are allowed to legally circumvent immigration law by declaring an "emergency" when, for example, they are unable to find enough workers in Palm Beach, Malibu, San Fransisco or other insanely expensive areas.

    Once they have their special status they are then permitted to import guest workers, legally, rather than raising wages to a high enough level to attract local workers. Remember that the savings are directly transferred to the bottom line. Which combined convenience store/oil Co. exec got a $400MILLION bonus last year?

    I find this practice of corporate welfare much more distressing than Jose coming over because he can't feed his wife and kids back home. It's corruption, pure and simple versus survival.

  • sammielee24
    sammielee24
    Anyway I'm just trying to illustrate that they pay taxes but do not use taxes in proportion

    I'm not certain that this is factual across the board and part of the problem is perception or what is legal by illegals.

    A woman who arrives with 20 others in a van, knowingly crossing the border to live and work illegally but who finds herself pregnant, will go to the hospital to give birth. If there are complications after delivery or if social assistance is needed before for prenatal care, then that cost is not balanced out to the tax payer by her. The cost can easily be in the thousands upon thousands. If I'm not mistaken, was there not just a whole documentary on one of the southern states having 1500 births to illegals in the first quarter of the year? This is service that the struggling poor and middle class in this country can't even get because they will be tracked down and harassed by bill collectors until they declare bankruptcy or suffer a nervous breakdown. The kids are now legal, which means if the mom isn't, they will both be taken care of regardless.

    States and/or counties have enacted their own laws to deal with the problems and many are sinking and unable to provide adequate services. In some counties, it is illegal for a police officer to ask whether a person is here legally or not if they stop them for any reason. Those officers are paid by the taxes in the system, yet those services are going toward protecting many illegals - I believe there are close to 2 million at last count in the penal system via warrants etc.

    It's a complex issue but to say that an illegal has paid in more than they get out just doesn't equate over all. Let's remember too, there can be 10-20 men living in one house and in the US illegally, so while you can make the statement that taxes are built into the rent, divide up that tax amount and it will be peanuts.

    I'm all for people having a job and I'm not blaming people who come over to work. I put the blame first and formost on every person who hires someone they know is here illegally. They are committing a federal crime. If they weren't hiring the people, the people wouldn't come. We are screaming at these people and yelling illegal, yet those who are hired by employers who know this, are the ones committing the illegal act in the first place. sammieswife.

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit