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Undocumented Aliens - Further Exploitation
by bluesapphire 65 Replies latest jw friends
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bluesapphire
Hey XJay!
Listing sources, is not "proof" it is confirmation that my opinion is not an ascertion, but an opinion based on facts. I guess in the minds of many like you every facts are racist.
So are you saying that if you list someone as a source who is obviously NOT neutral, that the source is still reliable? For example, if I list the KKK as a source that provided their own "data", would they still be reliable and trustworthy in your mind?
Please tell us what you personally use to qualify the sources you use to back up your opinion. I would like clarification for the sake of the thread. Thanks.
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MinisterAmos
I would like clarification for the sake of the thread
I've already investigated and posted. "CIS" was started by Americans for Immigration Reform based in CA.
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XJW4EVR
The Southern Poverty Law Center claims the CIS was founded and funded by John Tanton as an offshoot of the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) [2][3].
Come on man, you really can't take them seriously with those sort of credentials. Go ahead and think that someone with no education, no skills, and "higher breeding rate" (to quote the CIS) is taking something off your plate if you want, but don't try to use such obvious racists to back-up your claim; it is virtually transparent.Wikipedia is weak, Amos
What is more, all one has to do to get on SPLC's list of hate groups is espouse somthing other than Morris Deeds approved speech. It is interesting that La Raza, the Brown Berets or MeCHa are not on his list of hate groups.
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mkr32208
I don't understand why no one is interested in solving this problem the logical way! Why don't we just amnex everything from the Mexico Texas border down to the panama canal make it States 51-60. No more ragtag corrupt Mexican government, taxes, minimum wage, public school, educational advancement. No more drug cartels...
I mean really think of all the problems it would solve. Who's gonna STOP us? The Mexican army? Please!
While were doing this we should just go ahead and bite the bullet and annex Canada too!
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bluesapphire
More quotes from the aritcle posted by Ex-Jay (notice he didn't read the whole article. Only the parts that suited him):
Pro-immigrant groups and Latino researchers dispute the federation's findings, calling them biased and incomplete.
...The federation is one of the nation's leading lobbying groups aimed at curbing immigration into the country. [Thus making them non-neutral]
...Gerardo Gonzalez, director of Cal State San Marcos' National Latino Research Center, which compiles data on Latinos, criticized the report. He said it does not measure some of the contributions that immigrants make to the state's economy.
"Beyond taxes, these workers' production and spending contribute to California's economy, especially the agricultural sector," Gonzalez said.
Immigrants, both legal and illegal, are the backbone of the state's nearly $28 billion-a-year agricultural industry, Gonzalez and other researchers say.
More than two-thirds of the estimated 340,000 agriculture workers in California are noncitizens, most of whom are believed to be illegal immigrants, according to a 1998 study on farmworkers prepared for the state Legislature.
Local farmers say migrant farmworkers are critical to their businesses, and without them they would have to close their farms or move their operations overseas.Ex-Jay, do you think it would be a good thing then to have the operations moved overseas? How much are you willing to pay for your groceries?
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heathen
bluesapphire --- There is a system in place for them to hire migrant workers to harvest crops LEGALLY . They can get work visa OK . Now stop promoting lawlessness ..............
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MinisterAmos
Why don't we just amnex everything from the Mexico Texas border down to the panama canal make it States 51-60.
That's exactly why the EU stock exchange has surpassed the value of the NYSE for the first time.
It's called HELPING neighboring countries to become developed rather than simply using them as toilet bowls and brothels.
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bluesapphire
You are comparing legal immigration (which I am all for) with illegal. Apples and oranges.
I'm saying, "give them their papers, make the process of becoming legal attainable and we will have apples and apples." That's what I'm saying. If you're "for legal immigration" then why not legalize them?
5:Usually accept less money which means you pay less for the same goods
Which undercuts hard working American citizens. I wonder if you have done any research on the drywall industry that thrived in the historically black south-central area of Los Angeles. It is interesting reading.
It is not the fault of the men who don't have documents. It is the fault of the greedy corporations who hire them . This is the very root of the problem. If the workers had documents to work legally, they could claim the regular wage and when workers run out, drive the wage up as it should go up. So who benefits from keeping them illegal? This is the question to keep asking in this whole argument: Who benefits? That's the entire gist of my thread. I believe that no one really wants to resolve the problem because the government knows that our entire economic system would suffer greatly if either of the following happens: We deport all the illegals or we legalize them and they are allowed to earn what they should. Nevermind the cost to keep them here. The economy's benefits outweigh the tangible costs.
You have no issue with me on this. I want the corporate fat cats to start doing the purp walk over illegal hiring practices. I don't think that will happen with Jorge W. in the Casa Blanca, nor do I think it will happen with a Dem as President. The reasons are simple. Corporations give to both parties equally! Secondly, people like yourself have labeled those of us that want the illegal invasion to stop as racists and bigots. And yes it is an invasion, please see definitions 3 and 4 below:
It's the terms you choose to use that make you sound like a bigot, Ex-Jay. See your dictionary reference below and I will highlight that the term you CHOSE to use is a caustic way of expressing yourself about your fellow human beings and neighbors who only want a better life. Don't you think that choosing words is important? Do you want to alienate or find a solution?
1. an act or instance of invading or entering as an enemy, esp. by an army. 2. the entrance or advent of anything troublesome or harmful, as disease. 3. entrance as if to take possession or overrun: the annual invasion of the resort by tourists. 4. infringement by intrusion. The term "invaders" about these people carries the above connotations. Even comparing them to a "disease". Calls them "enemies". Assumes they are here to "take posession and overrun." NONE of these terms accurately describes the situation. That's why the selection of this term implies you are a bigot. Maybe you're not. Maybe you just need to choose your words more carefully.
I am of the opinion that a single card that most be shown at the time of hire, which shows who the lawful holder of the issued Social Security number is would suffice. We already have that for credit cards, I don't think it is a stretch to ask for it with Social Security cards. It's simple, and it takes one of the biggest excuses away from corporations, that being that they cannot tell the difference between authentic and forged documents.
I am of the opinion that this "card" that you espouse should be within reasonable reach to the people who need it. Otherwise it's worthless and would solve nothing. I don't think you understand my argument.
Dry up the jobs and they will stop coming. Simple as that.
And then what? You claim to be looking into the "future". Tell us then, what happens after that? Don't you see that it is already known what would happen. This is the very reason no one truly wants to find a solution. Because the system right now works for those in power.
6:Are available. I can't stress how important this is after going through Ivan and Katrina. Without illegals, the roofs around here would STILL be covered in blue tarps.
Would they? I don't think so. I think that if contractors had to pay a fair wage to American citizens OR to legal residents! Correct or not? But who benefits from the illegal status of these hard-working laborers?
Legal residents are not the issue. Stop confusing it. As far as who benefits, why don't you ask the people that pick up day laborers in home improvement center parking lots? Or perhaps the people that contract to gardeners that may or may not have the right to work legally in the US? Or the old money in San Francisco's Nob Hill, which hire illegal British and Irsh women to be nannies? A lot of people benefit for illegal workers, not just corporate fat cats, though they are the highest profile offenders.
When I see the day laborers at Home Depot and I have a job to get done, I hire them. I give them their asked for $10 per hour, feed them, give them something to drink and a bonus for their hard work. I would much rather do that than hire the bum across the street who says, "will work for food." Yeah, right he'll work for food.
You didn't "go around" with me. You argued your same old tired arguments that you are arguing here. So, is it okay to call these human beings who come here to work "invaders"? When I think of the term "invader" I think of war.You don't agree that it sounds like a bigotted and inhumane expression designed to depersonify humans who obviously do not intend to start a war with us?
Are you of the opinion that no one is a "bigot" then? If not, then under what circumstances is someone truly a "bigot"? Do you think the word should be struck from the English dictionary? Or can it actually be possible that sometimes people truly are or sound like bigots by their choice of words?
As did you. There is nothing new here. You say that anyone that disagrees eith you is a bigot and a racist. Which is fine. It illustrates the fact that when you have lost the battle you only have name-calling to resort to. As for the rest of your tirade, yes I do believe that there are bigots and ricsts out there, and that now most of them cloak it with the veneer of liberalism. It keeps them comfortable. You see Minister Amos summed it up great. As long as it does not affect him personally he's not concerned. This is the reason why there is a problem. He only cares about the here and now. I am trying to make sure that future generations of Americans won't be born into a balkanized United States.
Stop saying that I say that "anyone who disagrees with me is a bigot." I have already told you why you Ex-Jay, sound like a bigot. If you can't handle it, then it's your problem. Nowhere have I said what you claim I said. If you are a bigot, then be proud of it. Stand up and claim it. That's what the Nazi's did, after all. As far as your claim about Amos, I see pot/kettle/black here.
Be careful when you through around terms like bigot, because you never know when that will turn around and bite you on the butt.
LOL, too funny that you actually believe this.
Yes, I do. Funny you still haven't answered the question that preceeded that. Was Cesar Chavez a bigot for protesting against the illegal alien strike breakers during La Causa, or like most who hold to the views you espouse are simply ignorant of the facts?
To be honest, I haven't had the time to look into your claims. I will later on today though and respond to this particular assertion of yours. Thanks!