Did God ever Exist?

by found-my-way 61 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • tetrapod.sapien
    tetrapod.sapien

    hey man, it wasn't childlike at all. these are major sort of things you are pondering my friend!

    and it's like terry said in another thread. if you take "god" completely out of the equation, how would you describe our universe being any different than the way it already is? - it's impossible to say for sure, right? a good question for deists and theists to ponder methinks. at what point does using the label "god", and believing that the label represents something tangible or outside of the cosmos, become an exercise born of tradition? or born of an intense desire to *know* that we are here with meaning (as opposed to without meaning).

    peace,

    tetra

  • itsallgoodnow
    itsallgoodnow

    that's all very precious, but why do we feel like we need an explanation or a story or something warm and fuzzy to cling to? why does there need to be a purpose? I don't think the universe owes us a purpose, a loving sky daddy that makes us feel like we're special.

    I think it's more special that we are even here at all, considering all the possibilities down through the ages, and we survived to become what we are.

    I don't know, but that works for me.

    I can understand why people want to stick to religious explanations, though. There is still so much that isn't clear and easy to explain. In due time, I guess.

  • found-my-way
    found-my-way
    but why do we feel like we need an explanation or a story or something warm and fuzzy to cling to? why does there need to be a purpose? I don't think the universe owes us a purpose, a loving sky daddy that makes us feel like we're special.

    I think it's more special that we are even here at all, considering all the possibilities down through the ages, and we survived to become what we are.

    I don't know, but that works for me.

    I can understand why people want to stick to religious explanations, though.

    itsallgoodnow,

    Thanks for your post. I lol'd at ''loving sky daddy''....

    I laughed because my post was not about ''god'' per se, but about how we came to be. I do not need god to have a purpose in life, nor do I need one to make me feel special...

    I am not religious at all, and I hope I didnt give the impression that I was... my ramblings were more about a creature that existed simply to create time and space and the universe...I am open minded to accept many realms of possibilites, one being that this tremedous beginning (and the universe does show evidence of having a beginning) was not an act of creation, but a random act of an explosion....

    IMHO, both require a type of faith...since no one was there to see the actual birth of the cosmos.

    Just because I believe in an intelligent designer/creator does not mean that I feel a need to worship it. and should science prove creationists wrong, and prove without a shadow of a doubt that there was no creator, then I will accept that...

  • funkyderek
    funkyderek

    found-my-way:

    If God is up there, why does he permit suffering? If I were God, I wouldn't of let it happen in the first place, these are my children, why would I let them suffer?

    Good question, three possible answers:

    1. God doesn't exist

    2. God is unwilling to prevent suffering.

    3. God is unable to prevent suffering.

    There are some other answers but mostly reducible to the above three. There have been enough books written on this question to last you a lifetime.

    Maybe I am influenced by my creationist upbringing and beliefs while a JW, because I find it hard to wrap my brain around the idea that everything came from nothing.

    Yes, you're probably influenced by your upbringing. Likely, you are also influenced by the "upbringing" of our species. We're just smarter-than-average apes, and it can be very difficult for any of us to wrap our (admittedly large) brains around the vastness and strangeness of time and space.

    There was a very powerful intelligent being, and it was the source of all the power, all the elements, every micron and atom in our universe. Billions and billions of year ago, this creator explodes, giving all of it's power to space, creating the building blocks of life, creating time...life which took eons to develope...and here we are now, and that is why ''god'' isn't in the picture, That is why there is no answer to our prayers, no supreme being to show us IT EXISTS because It died the very day It created life...the greatest act of love..It's death was for our life...and that is why so many believe that god is within us all, within all the wonderful beautiful creation, in the stars we see at night, all the beauty and the ugliness that surrounds us...in a way, we are all made up of the fabric that was god...

    I quite like that idea. It's certainly a big improvement on the Genesis account, but I have to ask: why does the initial explosion have to be the explosion of an intelligent being? Couldn't it just as easily have been the explosion of a singularity as modern physics suggests? It's still somewhat mysterious but at least we no longer have to explain how the original intelligent being got there.

    There may have been an intelligent being at the beginning of the universe but from what we know of intelligence it appears to be an emergent property that develops only after a long period of evolution. If there's no evidence for the intelligence, and putting it into the equation doesn't give us any more information (and I can't see that it does) the principle of parsimony compels us to ignore it.

  • avidbiblereader
    avidbiblereader

    Still does.

    abr

  • Perry
    Perry
    If I were God, I wouldn't of let it happen in the first place, these are my children, why would I let them suffer?

    Where did you get the idea that you are a child of God? You cannot stop sinning can you? Yet, you imagine that God has some sort of responsibility toward you don't you..... even as you are his enemy? Most people do this to comfort themselves in this fallen world. But, there is just one problem.... it isn't true. If, of course you could stop attacking God through your lying, lusts, greed and selfishness, then God, as any parent would care for you, beyond your wildest dreams.

    For instance, if a child down the street from me gets abused in some way, who will the police arrest? The child's parents of course, not me. So, why then do you judge God by a different standard than you judge your neighbor? Would you like the courts to make you eternally responsible for your various neighbors' kids or just your own? Just treat God the way you want to be treated and you'll get a lot more mileage out of your thinking.... and his blessing.

    On the other hand, if you choose to simply beleive in the non existence of God, you are faced with other problems. All experience is cause and effect. So, without God you must believe in an infinite digression of cause and effect events. Since this is beyond the labroratory, it enters the realm of faith. How do you explain the future? If time has an infinite past, wouldn't we be stuck in the present? (one moment past for one moment present). How does the future get here without a beginning? Why would some people choose an unintelligent "First Cause" as opposed to an intelligent one?

    Atheists are forced to beleive in an unintelligent God of infinite digression of cause and effect events, or an unintelligent first cause. Sadly, the unintelligent facet of their belief system is the dominant feature of many of its adherents' posts. For instance, I once started a thread directed toward whether atheism was dangerous or not. All the atheists seem to agree thay they get their notions of good and bad from something called "social conditioning".

    Fascinated by this source that apparently directs atheists, I asked several questions:

    1. How do you know if the social conditions are true?

    2. Are there any examples in history of people being mislead by social conditions?

    3. Can social conditions be manipulated?

    4. Where do the social engineers and corporate advertisers go to get their notions of right and wrong?

    5. Who is in control of that source?

    Not surprisingly, none of the atheists wanted to examine the source that directs them even though it effects their everyday life!

    If good and bad changes as social conditions change, then it is just a matter of time before what you say is good today will be what is bad tomorrow. When judging, how can you be sure your "present truth" won't be falsified tomorrow? If so, then are you qualified to judge anything? Are you qualified even to speak intelligently? Or, are you qualified to only speak unintelligently, thus imitating the atheist god.

  • nvrgnbk
    nvrgnbk

    May your God bless you Perry!

    Nvr

  • found-my-way
    found-my-way
    Where did you get the idea that you are a child of God? You cannot stop sinning can you? Yet, you imagine that God has some sort of responsibility toward you don't you..... even as you are his enemy? Most people do this to comfort themselves in this fallen world. But, there is just one problem.... it isn't true. If, of course you could stop attacking God through your lying, lusts, greed and selfishness, then God, as any parent would care for you, beyond your wildest dreams.

    Hi Perry,

    Just wondering why you are attacking me?

    I did not attack your God, nor did I attack you.

    I did not call myself a child of God. I do not see myself as such.

    Can you stop sinning Perry? Or have you become the only perfect human since Jesus?

    I do not believe that God has any responsibility towards me personally.

    So you are saying that God only loves those who do not sin? Nice conditional love there....just the kinda god I wanna believe in

    So, why then do you judge God by a different standard than you judge your neighbor? Would you like the courts to make you eternally responsible for your various neighbors' kids or just your own? Just treat God the way you want to be treated and you'll get a lot more mileage out of your thinking.... and his blessing.

    Where did I judge God anywhere in my post? I think you have sorely mistaken the idea I was presenting. I think you have completely misunderstood me.

    I'm glad that you feel as though you are a perfect son of God.

    If good and bad changes as social conditions change, then it is just a matter of time before what you say is good today will be what is bad tomorrow. When judging, how can you be sure your "present truth" won't be falsified tomorrow? If so, then are you qualified to judge anything? Are you qualified even to speak intelligently? Or, are you qualified to only speak unintelligently, thus imitating the atheist god

    I dont judge. I hate judgementalness, I detest judgemental people, and would never want to be one. I guess I'll leave that job up to you, since you seem to be so good at it.

    AS for you insulting my ability to speak intelligently, I won't even dignify that with a response.

    As far as I'm concerned I only see a Pharisee's words. Jesus taught...to not judge others, for how you judge them is how you will be judged. I am not judging anyone. I merely presented a theory.

    Did Jesus judge the sinners, the common people? He loved them, he ate with them, he fed them. I, will never claim to be anything other than a mortal, mistake-making sinner. and if God is up there, and He see's fit to strike me down dead, then He can do so. I can't stop him.

  • nvrgnbk
    nvrgnbk

    to found.

    Why are you so angry Perry?

    God will surely cut us down when he sees fit to do so.

    That will surely be a blessed day for you!

    Nvr

  • greendawn
    greendawn

    It was Nietzsche that came up with the idea that God is dead. I don't agree with this and prefer to accept the Christian belief that God is eternal never had a beginning and will never have an end and he is altogether beyond our concept of time and space.

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit