Update: Elders on the move.... (page 3)

drew sagan

Thanks for the comments Jim

The problem is that it is allready over. Because of my previous discussions with Elders they know that I have strong feelings that they are wrong on a number of issues. Sitting down with them now and putting on the act of 'i didn't know' would be beyond what both me and my wife could do. They are so confrontationial that I would eventually sink to their level and begin to argue, thus giving them reasons for disfellowshipping. Also, after I give into them what's next? Stop being a member at the YMCA? Start to give into every one of their rules?

We just cannot allow them to have that kind of power in our lives. My mother in law primarily turned my wife in because she does not want to have to deal with a fading daughter. The longer me and my wife fade, the more and more my mother in law is going to want to simply 'end it' by just getting us to say we are no longer JWs. That way at least the matter is settled and there are no loose ends (for her).

I've been quiet and submissive for the better part of a year but that has put many strains on the communications between our families. I feel now is the time to bring it togeather. If I don't I have full confidence they will do it for me.

moshe

yes, that seems to be a problem- the elders see their chance to get even with you for winning the last arguments.

They can be very vindictive- and when they are looking for reasons it doesn't take much- if they should threaten to do something , then tell the elders you are writing a letter for clarification as that 1979 reference is very old-( you can give lots of examples of doctrinal changes in the last few years) Maybe a new questions from readers will result from your letter and a change in policy. They are wanting the newest, latest light aren't they and willing to wait for clarification?

drew sagan

Thanks for both of your suggestions moshe, both of them may come in quite handy.

OnTheWayOut

It might not be an option, but you could always have the wife play dumb on the YMCA, saying
Drew Sagan said it was okay, I didn't find a reference. Any hard feelings from the elders, you as
the husband handle that, allowing them to spare Amber Rose from any actions. That way, she
can retain some relationship with Mom if she's still listed as JW.

It may not work. I don't see that any trying to discuss things with Mom-in-Law will do anything
more than convince her that she was right to turn in her daughter.

The covert action of just bold-face lies could work, too. Here's the example-
"Oh, we didn't know that joining the Y was wrong, so Amber asked her mother about it. She
misunderstood. Amber is not a member (or Amber immediately withdrew membership)."

I feel for you wanting to have it over with, the fade isn't for everyone. It requires sacrifice and
maintenance and dishonesty. I just thought you should look at all options for your wife and her
mother's sake. If you think MIL will keep family contact, then you might as well walk away without
worrying about the elders, though.

I bet MIL's husband doesn't ever get baptized after this fiasco.

Paralipomenon

I think this meeting would just be a Shepparding call. Joining the YMCA might just be a sign that you're spiritually weak.

You could force them to tip their hand when scheduling the meeting. Ask them what it's about. They will try every means possible to avoid telling you before the actual meeting.

You can rightly get a bit annoyed with their avoidance and ask if they have an ulterior motive. Personally I love to accuse people that are trying to hide something of something much larger. Usually they have rehearsed all their replies to keep control of the conversation, so I like to toss them off guard and watch them collapse.

For example, if they are being evasive you could say "You're just looking for an excuse to come see my wife aren't you? I've seen how you've looked at her at the hall!"

Takes a steel set of balls to pull that one off, but I can assure you that if you do that and he starts to stammer you can hang up the phone indignantly and the brother will do one of two things:

1) drop the issue out of embarrassment
2) get another brother to call to calm you down who would understand if you are avoid them

Have fun with it, cult programmed people are a blast to mess with.

rowan

gosh Drew, this makes me so mad. it's always a no win situation with JW relatives.

cutting the crap and starting fresh sans covering up: healthy but painful

continue the fade, circunventing them and irritating the crap out of them: funny but tiring

trying to please your relatives, acting lovingly, playing their game: I did this for them, thought I had taken the higher road, now I'm out of the psych ward and cannot bear to talk on the phone with my parents.

blasted perversed murderous organization, may there be a special hell for these monster feeders.

Borgia

Hi Drew,

It's tough that you and Amber are going through this. Is you MIL the only one who have mentioned it to the elders?

In that case play dummy and let the two witness rule apply. If they don't have a case...of they have to go. Pity for them. But this way you can continue your fade without a problem. "Confessing" will not bring you any further, unless you really agree with your MIL to have it ended.

Disclosing it to you side of the family might proof to be hazardous because then there are at least two witnesses.

However, if you are ready to take the burn it might proof to be an eyeopener to your parents.

Cheers

Borgia

HappyDad

Again, I can see the futility of arguments. They are of no value here. This is the time to build bridges not burn them down. I'm going to be taking on a 'love first' approach. I want my mother in law to see that we love her. I want her to see that we care about her.

This is the best approach Drew.

You and your wife should also play "dumb" or that it was a momentary lapse of memory about joining the Y.

You are a smart man. If there is a need for you and your wife to remain JW's for the time being, in order to keep her mother off guard and happy, then play the injured party long enough to start the fade once again.

I wish you the best on this.

HappyDad

drew sagan

Thanks for the encouragement HappyDad!

greendawn

Sorry to hear that your carefully crafted and patiently followed fading plan is now in danger and that it is a relative that is threatening its successful conclusion because of the YMCA association, big deal, why does she have to be so subservient and act against her family, that's how diabolical this cult is.

As people stated above you should deny the charges or somehow evade them it's not their business to intrude in your life.

Update: Elders on the move....

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