Update: Elders on the move....

by drew sagan 43 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  IronClaw

  Hi Drew,

  I feel your pain. The elders in my congo were afraid to come over my house and see the research that I had acquired on the Mexico/Malawi scandal. I think they knew they would look like fools when I finished with them. My PO even said he would come over with the CO and see me. NEVER showed. 2 elders after almost a year and a half finally cornered me at a local gas station in town. That was a big mistake on their part. I gave both of them a piece of my mind. They have no guts. Anyway, I wish you and the wife the best in whatever you do. I don't post much anymore but when I read this I had to say something. I have always enjoyed and will continue to enjoy your posts.

  Take care, The Claw
• 

  Paralipomenon

  You could state that your wife joined a group for that claims to be for "Young Men". Reasoning that they are as much a "Christian" organization now as they are exclusively for "Young Men"
  
  The article that cautioned about joining one was also printed in a time where blood fractions were a disfellowshipping offense. You can have a good chuckle with the elders on how much the organization has changed in 25 odd years and say that your conscience is fine with being a member of a gym.
  
  They may bring that there are "mythical others" that may be stumbled by her actions. You can bring up the scripture about not letting the sun set with you in a provoked state and ask the elders if any "other" person looks to be stumbled, encourage them to come talk to you so you can reason with them.
  
  Desperate fall back would be the ol' "millstone around your neck" if your actions stumble another. Again you can repeat the above and say that each person is responsible for their own faith. Jesus said in his sermon that unless you ate his flesh and drank his blood there was no salvation. Many murmured and walked away. Does that make Jesus bloodguilty?
  
  If they press the issue, you can ask if they are there representing someone claiming to be stumbled. If they say "yes" ask for the name so you can talk to them, if they say "no" then you can say that there's no worry of any millstones then.
  
  That's about all the angles I can think of that they'd try. During my sheparding call they wanted to do the encouragement talk about how great the meetings are and how that is the only place Jehovah's spirit is. I just noded, smiled and agreed with them. They also offered a bible study. When they tried that with me I said "Do I need to get rebaptised after missing so many meetings?" They said no and told them that I was current on my magazine reading and didn't feel I would benefit from a study. I had prepared before time with the most current magazine that had just come out.
  
  I asked them what they thought of the article in "[super new great WT magazine]" they confessed they hadn't read it yet. I encouraged them to check it out as it was very faithbuilding and assured them that I'd be a regular back at the meetings when my work schedule settled down and I kicked this pesky depression.
  
  They left and never tried again.
• 

  compound complex

  Greetings Drew and Amber,

  Sorry about the grief and betrayal "in the name of God." You were the first to comment on my thread "Ray Franz Comments on Y.M.C.A." - http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/131171/1.ashx I don't know that the comments therein would be of any particular benefit at this point, yet you might like to read what others had to say since your post. You did mention your wife's feelings toward the matter.
  The best to you both at this difficult time. I, too, am fading and ever on the lookout. What a drag!

  Love and peace,

  CoCo
• 

  JWdaughter

  All my best to you and AmberRose. You got a lot of good suggestions here. I liked the one accusing the elder of being after your wife. . .I am kind of for messing with them w/o giving them any ammo to DF her/you.

  One thought I had when you said the MIL was 'weak' is that she knows you don't want to be JWs, her hubby seems reluctant. . .maybe she wants AmberRose DF'd so she has an excuse to get out herself??Is she tied in other ways to the org? Maybe she has a twisted reason for doing this. Perhaps that is a question you might want to ask her. . .does she really think that your wife should be expelled for this action? Does she intend to shun her if that happens? If so, why is she trying to ensure that it happens? Her motivations might be interesting, regardless of how you deal with the elders.

  You do realize that there are two (at least) separate issues here, even though they are connected. Knowing that, and knowing that MIL has a good idea of what is going on in any case should make you or AR a little more free to seek out a honest dialogue on MIL's motivations.
• 

  drew sagan

  JWdaughter Thanks for the thoughts. The motivitaions of my mil seem quite clear. We both feel she has recieved a huge amount of pressure from being at the Kingdom Hall without us (especially without my wife). My mil has both of her daughters married off now and a husband who only goes to the meetings sometimes. Many differant ones at the Hall are probably asking her ever week 'where's your daughter?', 'tell her that we miss her'.
  
  This, like my wife pointed out is like them saying 'hey, there is a big pimple on your head, did you see it?'. I believe she is tired of having to deal with this on her own. When she realized that her daughter no longer acts like a JW I feel she decided to possibly move the process along by making it official. That way she would not have to deal with the shame of a fading daughter. All blame would simply be put on my wife for being 'unreasonable'.
  
  I do believe my mil is weak in the JWs from many things I have seen. One of the problems has been that because of me and my wifes actions she has pushed harder for a deeper commitment. But in her case I never really thought a surge would do much good ;) The kick will soon wear out (or possibly has worn out and started a number of differant times allready).
  
  Anyway, thanks for all the comments. We are planning on speaking to the family tomarrow. Wish us luck.
• 

  Quandry

  Again, I can see the futility of arguments. They are of no value here. This is the time to build bridges not burn them down. I'm going to be taking on a 'love first' approach. I want my mother in law to see that we love her. I want her to see that we care about her. This is quite difficult, but really is our only option.
  You are right about the futility of arguments. This is what may ensue if you give the family both barrels of all the reasons you are no longer going to the Hall. I like the "love" approach better. You must remember that she is a woman and a mother. Logic and reason will not motivate her a fraction of the amount that her feelings for her daughter will. You might ask if it seems reasonable that she would never speak to her daughter again because of gym membership? How would Jesus view that? You might tell her that you have and will continue always to think your best of her and love her. I guarantee this will eat her up inside.

  I do like all the comments on the argument that the WTS joined the United Nations ostensibly to "get a library card." You might ask mom if she doesn't see some similarities there. But don't get off on other subjects. Hold her feet to the fire on this one. Ask how her daughter is doing something that could cause a DF offense but the WTS isn't. Possibly she does not know yet about the UN deal. Maybe she could personally make a call to the Service desk and ask them, because you woudn't want her to take your word for it.

  Wish you both the best .
• 

  dawg

  How do you guys know that playing the game to stay in is the right approach? Tell them they're fools for believing men are "gods mouthpiece"... use their own bible aginst them.. you must obey God as ruler rather then men. Why aren't there more people willing to stand up to these wackos? So, to keep your family talking to you, you are willing to live a lie? To make your life one great big lie? To not tell them exactly what you feel so they'll talk to you? To submit to this kind of blackmail? Not me bro, I'm going at these fools full force, they're the ones that are worng... they built a mansion for the returning prophets to live in and you need to be ashamed that you're calling them out? THEY'RE MEN, THEY'RE MEN, THERY'RE MEN!
• 

  MinisterAmos

  Just deny it. "I don't know what that crazy farking biatch is thinking! She must be having delusions againg or it comes from mixing alcohol with her anti-depression medication"

  Deny deny deny. Make them stake out the YMCA day and night to find the truth and then say it's your twin they saw.
• 

  Hortensia

  I'm so sorry you and your wife are going through this. All I can say is that once you are on the other side and everyone knows who stands where, life is suddenly less complicated and a lot nicer. But the process you are going through to get there is painful. I agree with Rowan. If there is a hell, I hope the GB get a nice place closest to the fire.
• 

  skeeter1

  Remind the elders & your mother-in-law of the fine example that Jesus set forth when dealing with doubters. The elders & your mother-in-law should do what Jesus would have done

  Instead, the elders will disfellowship you and your mother-in-law (who is older and closer to her own death)(resurrection) will shun you to gain Jehovah's favor. ....but, what would Jesus do when someone does not believe? Would Jesus disfellowship a person with honest doubts? No,Jesus works with the person, patiently & kindly. He does not disfellowship someone with honest doubts.

  Jesus Appears to Thomas

  24 Now Thomas (called Didymus), one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. 25 So the other disciples told him, "We have seen the Lord!"
  But he said to them, "Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe it."

  26 A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" 27 Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe."

  28 Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"

  29 Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

  30 Jesus did many other miraculous signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book. 31 But these are written that you may [a] believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

  Footnotes: