Ok, the problem here is this: First, IPSEC, you are dead wrong about the definition of "graven image" which is the English translation of the Hebrew pesel.
H6459
????
peselpeh'-sel
From H6458; an idol: - carved (graven) image.
covenant, Ark of...
by Priest73 44 Replies latest jw friends
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Creeper
The other problem is this:
Exo 20:2 I595 am the LORD3068 thy God,430 which834 have brought thee out3318 of the land4480, 776 of Egypt,4714 out of the house4480, 1004 of bondage.5650
Exo 20:3 Thou shalt have1961 no3808 other312 gods430 before5921, 6440 me.
Exo 20:4 Thou shalt not3808 make6213 unto thee any graven image,6459 or any3605 likeness8544 of any thing that834 is in heaven8064 above,4480, 4605 or that834 is in the earth776 beneath,4480, 8478 or that834 is in the water4325 under4480, 8478 the earth:776
Exo 20:5 Thou shalt not3808 bow down thyself7812 to them, nor3808 serve5647 them: for3588 I595 the LORD3068 thy God430 am a jealous7067 God,410 visiting6485 the iniquity5771 of the fathers1 upon5921 the children1121 unto5921 the third8029 and fourth7256 generation of them that hate8130 me;
Exo 20:6 And showing6213 mercy2617 unto thousands505 of them that love157 me, and keep8104 my commandments.4687If we look closely, the idea of the 2nd commandment is specifically dealing with the bowing down or worshiping (serving) the idol. The children of Israel had just been pulled from the bondage to sin in Egypt, and were very much familiar with idolatry. They had to be taught not to submit to idols again. Later, they would undergo another captivity by Babylon, and have the same principles as part of the their worship again. By the time of the Pharisees, there are many who ascribe to the Talmud and other false teachings, oral commands of the elders, etc, which are not part of the everlasting Torah.
Chrisitianity of course (including JW's) teaches that the Tanakh is now void or "done away" or no longer a covenant that we are to ascribe to. The Messiah of course never said any such thing.
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IP_SEC
Thou shalt not3808 make6213 unto thee any graven image,
Creeper the command was not to make ANY graven image. The ark and snake were graven images.
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cyrus
THE GOOD BOOK is all it is but ive read better
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Priest73
I was under the impression that the GOOD BOOK wasn't due out until July 21st. See for yourself... jkrowling.com
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Creeper
IPSEC, do you have a lexicon or good concordance like Strong's or Smith's bible dictionary? Please look up the Hebrew pesel and it's root definition from H6458. I realize it is about carving things, but the idea presented is specifically in regards to idolatry. The ark was never idolized by the Hebrews. Neither was the serpent of brass, nor the temple itself. But the golden calf (something YHWH did not command to be made) was.
It boils down to listening to what YHWH commands and not what the people want. YHWH also commands people to kill, even though he also commands them not to in the 10, right? The Torah has countless accounts of David slaughtering an entire army at the command of YHWH.
Why is this so difficult? I ask this as your companion in the faith.
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IP_SEC
The Torah has countless accounts of David slaughtering an entire army at the command of YHWH.
Yes you are exactly right!! YHWH is a total psychopath.
What was the purpose of the ark creeper?
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Priest73
Excellent question IP. What is the ark's purpose? Regardless. It was and "object" revered by the jews. It's just human nature. Some that shrouded in mystery. hidden from the public. if it was just a container as one user stated, then why hide it?
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Creeper
YHWH is not a psychopath. There were wars that established many lessons in the history of the nation of Israel. One cannot simply infer these short cut and dry remarks to sum up thousands of years of anguish and spiritual warfare among the house of Judah and the house of Israel. Murder is what is condemned by the Torah, a specific law for societies of people among each other. War is between different varying societies, and YHWH promised them that foreign nations would not prevail against them. Israel was being attacked and mocked just as Hitler mocked and attacked the Jews. There is really never any change to this, God's people are always being persecuted. It is a fact of not only bible history, but our own current history.
I think there is a great deal that can be learned though if you had a better understanding of the Hebrew language and the way the English sometimes must paraphrase to meet it's intent. The lack of true meaning is sometimes lost between languages. For instance, "Elohim" is a description of men and angels, as well as YHWH's nature. But there is ben elohim, malak, in the Hebrew, which denote the proper English word which should be applied (Sons of God, Angels, respectively). One is a supernatural being, the other is human.
The same exact study must go into the definitive pesel as well, otherwise, one loses authentic meaning. There must be a lot of time devoted to really understand the hermetics of the Tanakh. I assure you, in my several years of studying the Greek, Aramaic and Hebrew transliterations, the Hebrew texts are sound in meaning, if one realizes their meaning apart from a false 21st century English conception of words.
Shalom Aleichem,
Creeper
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IP_SEC
What was the purpose of the ark creeper?
im not a complete linguistic fool as creeper indicates in his last post. This question has direct bearing on his point should he ever choose to answer it