THE FATHERS Of THE NEPHILIM

by badboy 25 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  sir82

  Hey wait a minute...

  Isn't there an old WT teaching that (at least part of) the "sacrifice" that Jesus made was that he could have fathered a race of perfect human children, had he married. I.e., the WT teaching is that only one of the parents need be "perfect" to produce "perfect" children.

  So, weren't the Nephilum "perfect" children? The angels didn't break any specific commands from God, did they? After the fact, he was displeased, but beforehand, what law did they break?

  So, wouldn't the death of the Nephilum be sufficient a "ransom" to pay for Adam's sin? Per the WT's teaching on justice, a perfect man had to die to compensate for Adam's sin. Well, in the flood, didn't a whole bunch of them die?

  Shooting down WT theology is like shooting fish in a barrel!
• 

  R.Crusoe

  I had it down they took on bodies as extra large men of beauty ( why not women goodness knows) and that after impregnating an Earthly woman, she would die with the birth of the oversized baby she bore. They would grow up to be the Nephilim who could choose their women at will! Don't recall how accurate that is. Anybody looked this up!
• 

  zack

  I find the accounts of demon possesion in the Bible contradictory to what Jude and Peter write about the demons being in Tarturus, restrained under dense darkness.

  What kind of a restraint is it when they possess and harrass human beings?

  Also, if you take everything literally written in the Bible, it is clearly spirit creatures which screwed up humanity. A spirit creature deceived Eve who then brings forth sin and death to ALL HUMANS!

  Spirit creatures took human bodies and fathered Nephilim who filled the Earth with voilence so God destroyed ALL THE HUMANS!!!----- but the demons escaped.

  Then the demons, although in chains, somehow manage to possess human bodies, serve as protectors of kingdoms, challenge righteous angels over the body of Moses, etc.... and

  then Paul says humans have a wrestling not with flesh and blood but with the wicked spirit forces!!! Aren't they in jail? Did they get paroled? And WHY do humans

  pay the price for the trouble these guys stirred up?

  The more you think of it, the more like Greek mythology it sounds, from Zeus to Prometheus, to Hercules---- Son of a God and a mortal and possessing super human strength.
• 

  myelaine

  dear zack...

  you said/asked:

  "I find the accounts of demon possesion in the Bible contradictory to what Jude and Peter write about the demons being in Tarturus, restrained under dense darkness."

  maybe this will help...The people who walked in DARKNESS have seen a great light; those who dwelt in a land of the shadow of death, upon them a light has shined. (Isaiah 9:2)

  + Thomas said to Him, "Lord, we do not know where You are going, and how can we know the way?" and Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. (John 14:5-6)

  That was the true Light which gives light to every man who comes into the world. (John 1:93)

  love michelle
• 

  zack

  Myeleine:

  I am not referring to "spiritual" darkness. I am referreing to the writings which clearly say that the angels which forsook their original positions are reserved for judgement

  under eternal bonds---- in other words, restraints. If you or I were resevered for judgement we would be on death row under tight security to ensure not only that we be

  delivered to the executioner, but to ensure the SAFETY of the public in the meantime.

  Either they are in bonds or they are or not. And if they can possess and harass humans, then I suggest they are not and thus the gospels contradict the epistles.
• 

  Narkissos

  The whole "materialisation" stuff is a modern rationalisation based on the later premise that "flesh" and "spirit" are mutually exclusive.

  In the polytheistic fragment of Genesis 6 the "gods" (most natural meaning of bny h-'lhym, lit. "sons of the gods," although they were later reinterpreted as "angels" in a monotheistic perspective) simply "take" (lqch) women and "come (un/in)to them" (bw' 'l) -- very common sexual expressions. That they can do that (without an extraordinary explanation like "taking on human bodies") is just taken for granted. In the Enochic version they just come down from heaven where heaven and earth meet, i.e. on a mountaintop (1 Enoch 7:7f): "Then they swore all together, and all bound themselves by mutual execrations. Their whole number was two hundred, who descended upon Ardis, which is the top of mount Armon. That mountain therefore was called Armon, because they had sworn upon it."

  zack: the point you seem to have missed (because the WT ignores it, as it doesn't fit its monistic anthropology) is that, in the Enochic background of Jude and 2 Peter (as attested in both 1 Enoch and the book of Jubilees), the "demons" are not the "angels who sinned", but the spirits of their progeny (Nephilim or giants), who lost their bodies in the Flood and are eager to possess bodies again. God allows them (or 1/10 of them in Jubilees) to subsist as "evil spirits" to plague mankind (notably through "demon possession," which includes a lot of sicknesses) until the day of judgement.