5go - I think that stiffer penalties for hiring illegals is also on the agenda before Congress right now.
LHG - Enforce the laws that we already have? That's not the American way!! You must write more laws that you fail to enforce! Writing new laws is the feel-good way of doing things. All fluff and no substance.
S4
Fencing Borders - Anyone Else Think This Is A Stupid Idea??
by Seeker4 37 Replies latest jw friends
-
Seeker4
-
Odrade
The biggest thing building a wall will accomplish is to keep illegals who are already here, in the country. Not out. I used to know people who would come work (illegally) in ag or restaurants, or other menial work, stay for a year or two, go back home for 6 months, come back and work for a year... etc. Putting up a wall would prevent them from returning to their families when they have money to survive. So then what is the choice? Never see their families again? Or try to smuggle them into the country too?
There was an interesting segment on NPR a few days ago about this. I'll see if I can find it.
I was listening to an economist discussing the Farm Bill, which is up for re-working again this year. The Farm Bill subsidizes crops like corn and soy, which can then be bought below production costs by junk food companies, (and other food companies.) The point was made (besides obvious correlation to cheap crappy food, and obesity,) that this has had severe impact on the global economy. Since these crops can be trade staples of other parts of the world, but the US subsidizes the giant crops so heavily, it has reduced agricultural economy in many nations, including our own. Small sustainable farms (many of whom provide employment for migrant workers,) are either going under, or converting to corn-syrup crops. Shame really.
Anyways, the point is that if the Farm Bill is fixed, subsidies like this are redistributed to sustainability, it changes the quality and availability of good food, AND it provides a boost to other countries with agricultural economies... which gives them jobs at home... which reduces illegal immigration.
Building a wall is a band-aid.
-
AllAlongTheWatchtower
I agree that the whole fence idea is completely idiotic.
These are the real issues that I think need addressed:
1) Illegals often get paid cash under the table, to avoid being detected. Therefore they pay no taxes. By the same token, people who employ them don't have to pay unemployment, healthcare, etc. So it makes economic sense to hire them, for an employer. A guy making 6 bucks an hour cash, is about as well off as a guy making 8 or 8 and some change on paper. Is it any wonder that the most vocal against illegal immigration are often from the lower socio-economic stratum?
2) Legal immigration is too prohibitive. The process of entering the country legally is too time consuming and problematic, with a lot of bureaucracy. Make it EASIER for immigrants to become citizens, or at least obtain temporary visas of some sort, so that they get paid legally-to avoid the problems in point #1.
3) Integration: This is the sticking point, because it involves spending money. I think many Americans see immigrants as seperatist, not a part of society. They speak their own language, have their own culture, and often live in their own neighborhoods. It makes for an us-them mentality. What would help solve this would be education; but then you run into the problem of how to pay for it when there's already a deficit. I'm no economics major, but perhaps the increased tax revenue from my point #2 would actually make enough difference to help pay for it.
-
buffalosrfree
I think the fence should be highly electrofied, roast em, i have no sympathy for people who choose to invade our country and ignore our laws. They are less than filfth in my book. Racist you say, b.s., i dont want any people of any country to be in our country illegally. We should have mirror policies. that is the policy the country has towards illegals, well thats the same way we should treat illegals from their country. Mexico treats illegals badly and thats exactly how we should treat their illegal invaders of our country. Kick em out, get the filfth out of our schools and our hospitals.
-
BizzyBee
The last thing America should do is let in the tired, the poor, the huddled masses yearning to breathe free...
We're already here - we're called taxpayers.
But back to the question: Yes, it is a stupid idea for the simple reason that it will not accomplish the objective.
-
Seeker4
"the filth" - What's with that? Not a view I can agree with. I have a friend who was arrested as an illegal. Ran a successful restaurant, hired a bunch of gringos, paid lots of taxes and was a huge force for good in his community. Not my idea of "filth."
Took him a while, but he's straightened out his status - with the support of his entire community.
S4 -
tetrapod.sapien
Fencing Borders - Anyone Else Think This Is A Stupid Idea??
oh, not just fences. borders in general are stupid.
word.
tetra
-
Brother Apostate
Fencing Borders, my thoughts:
Positives:
- Does make it more difficult (temporarily) to illegally immigrate.
- Creates jobs patrolling the fence border.
- In the short term, cuts down on crime and tax burden (but not taxes)
Negatives:
- Costs an estimated $5 million if volunteers build it
- Costs alot more than that because volunteers won't build it.
- Costs alot to hire citizens to patrol said fence.
- Costs around $15.00 to buy a bolt cutter capable of cutting through said fence.
- Hence (probably) costs more than what illegal immigrants are contributing to the US economy.
I could think of no more positives, but many, many more negatives, that I haven't listed (yet).
BA- Seems like a bad idea, imo.
-
hillary_step
Derek,
I think it's a great idea. The last thing America should do is let in the tired, the poor, the huddled masses yearning to breathe free...
lol....You are developing a streak of gnarled cynicism worthy of a persecuted Poet. I think an answer to the problem would be to pay the illegals to build the wall. That way everybody wins. Those that get permanently injured on the job, get free Citizenship, an Armani suit and a lifetime membership to the New York Yacht Club. HS
-
M.J.
Existing boder fences in urban border settings do help, in that traffic is limited to where the fence has been breached, or to where a tunnel has been dug...but constant surveilance and especially maintenance is required to maintain an actual fence.
Think of no fence between San Ysidro (Just south of San Diego) and Tijuana. It wouldn't work. that said, I doubt it would be worth the cost to extend that over a thousand miles or so.