The Trinity ( arguement to end all arguments I hope )

by 5go 56 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Big Tex
    Big Tex

    Mad

    You cannot paste images from your hard drive on to the Internet. You must first upload them to an online site

  • 5go
    5go

    Trinity

    In Christianity, the doctrine of the Trinity states that God is one being who exists, simultaneously and eternally, as a mutual indwelling of three persons: the Father, the Son (incarnate as Jesus of Nazareth), and the Holy Spirit. Since the 4th century, in both Eastern and Western Christianity, this doctrine has been stated as "three persons in one God," all three of whom, as distinct and co-eternal persons, are of one indivisible Divine essence, a simple being. Supporting the doctrine of the Trinity is known as Trinitarianism. The majority of Christians are Trinitarian, and regard belief in the Trinity as a test of orthodoxy. Opposing, nontrinitarian positions that are held by some groups include Binitarianism (two deities/persons/aspects), Unitarianism (one deity/person/aspect), the Godhead (Latter Day Saints) (three separate beings) and Modalism (Oneness).

    In addition to teaching that God comprises three persons, the doctrine also teaches that the Son Himself has two distinct natures, one fully divine and the other fully human.

    Neither the Old Testament nor New Testament uses the term "Trinity," though Trinitarians believe the concept is implicit in various biblical passages (see Scripture section below). The doctrine of the Trinity is the result of continuous exploration by the church of the biblical data, argued in debate and treatises. [1] It was expressed in early writings from the beginning of the second century forward. [1] The First Council of Nicaea in 325 AD established a nearly universal Trinitarian dogma and expressly rejected any heresies. The most widely recognized Biblical foundations for the doctrine's formulation are in the Gospel of John. [2]

    Sabellianism ( Modalism )

    In Christianity, Sabellianism (also known as modalism, modalistic monarchianism, or modal monarchism) is the nontrinitarian belief that the Heavenly Father, Resurrected Son and Holy Spirit are different modes or aspects of one God (for us only), rather than three distinct persons (in Himself). God was said to have three "faces" or "masks" (Grk. prosopa). The question is: "is God's threeness a matter of our falsely seeing it to be so (Sabellianism/modalism), or a matter of God's own essence revealed as three-in-one (orthodox trinitarianism)?" Modalists note that the only number ascribed to God in the Holy Bible is One and that there is no inherent threeness ascribed to God explicitly in scripture. The number three is never mentioned in relation to God in scripture, which of course is the number that is central to the word Trinity.

    I see only semantics seperating the two belief systems.

    Criticisms of Trinitarian doctrine

    Nontrinitarians commonly refer to the following points in objection to Trinitarian teaching.

    • That it does not follow the strict monotheism found in Judaism and the Old Testament, of which Jesus claimed to have fulfilled.
    • That it is an invention of early Christian church fathers, such as Tertullian.
    • That it is paradoxical and therefore not in line with reason.
    • That it reflects the influence of pagan religions, some of which have divine triads of their own.
    • That the doctrine contradicts the Holy Scriptures, such as when Jesus states that the Father is greater than he is, or the Pauline theology: "Yet to us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we unto him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we through him." [34]( I agree there are scripture to support it as well though )
    • That the doctrine relies almost entirely on non-Biblical terminology. Some notable examples include: Trinity, Three-in-one, God the Son, God the Holy Ghost, Person in relation to anyone other than Jesus Christ being the image of God's person (hypostasis).
    • That the scriptural support for the doctrine is implicit at best. For example, the New Testament refers to the Father and the Son together much more often than to the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and the word "Trinity" doesn't appear in the Bible. ( I find this ilrelavent neither was the word hell which was created lated but a place of fiery torment is in the bible.)

    Easy to spot the problems in the trinity belief system.

  • 5go
    5go
  • megsmomma
    megsmomma

    I do believe in the trinity....but, not as a 3 headed God....but as a divine being "playing" different roles for the humans he created. If there is only One true God and Jesus was also called god, does this mean Jesus was a false god? I will never argue the trinity with anyone...it is not for me to prove...however I do know in my own experience....once I did a lot of Bible reseach and study, it hit me in a moment that I DO believe it....and I have been content with it in my heart ever since. It made me feel like more of the Bible made sense to me and I felt very close to God at that moment.

  • LtCmd.Lore
    LtCmd.Lore

    You cannot paste images from your hard drive on to the Internet. You must first upload them to an online site

    I'll just take the time to elaborate on that a bit: You are trying to post an image on the internet directly from your computer... but when you put an image in the box, you are not ACCTUALLY putting the picture there, you are just putting a piece of code there that explains where the image is located... but since it's on your computer, our computers know where it is but they just can't get too it.

    You need to upload the picture on the internet first, on a website like this: http://www.tinypic.com/

    Then they'll tell you the new link to where it's located online... and then you post that in the message. (Kind of a pain huh? Hope you have high speed internet!)

    By the way, since it's pointing to your computer the picture should show up fine for you, but not for everyone else.

    Lore

  • Undecided
    Undecided

    Can anyone prove they have found the real creator or God? I have seen no proof other than what some religious person says he has felt emotionally. I don't think God has revealed himself to humans in any way that can be proven. Please show me if you can?:??? I would like to see any proof of God other than nature.

    Ken P.

  • 5go
    5go
    I do believe in the trinity....but, not as a 3 headed God....but as a divine being "playing" different roles for the humans he created. If there is only One true God and Jesus was also called god, does this mean Jesus was a false god? I will never argue the trinity with anyone...it is not for me to prove...however I do know in my own experience....once I did a lot of Bible reseach and study, it hit me in a moment that I DO believe it....and I have been content with it in my heart ever since. It made me feel like more of the Bible made sense to me and I felt very close to God at that moment.

    I had a simular experiance when I started to read the bible myself with out aids from the WBT$ . But then I ran into the logic problem and obvious concerns of pagan influence on the bible ( mainly the NT then I found it in the OT as well )

  • aniron
    aniron
    Only Jehovah is said to be ALMIGHTY

    Jesus as we know is called "Mighty God" at Isaiah 9:6

    Who then is referred to as "Mighty God" at Isaiah 10:20,21

    "And it will certainly occur in that day those remainling over in Israel and those who have escaped of the house of Jacob will never again support themseleves upon the one striking them, and certainly support themseleves on Jehovah the Holy One of Israel, in trueness.
    A mere remnant will return, the remnant of Jacob, to the Mighty God.
    Isaiah 10:20,21

    Also at Jermiah 32:18

    "the one exercising loving -kindness toward thousands, and repaying erroe of the fathers into the bosom of their sons after them, the [true] God, the great One, the mighty One, Jehovah of armies being his name." Jermiah 32:18

    Notice it calls Jehovah "mighty One" not "Almighty One".

    Also the footnote in the New World Translation states:
    v18 "the mighty One" Heb., hag-Gib-bohr' Compare Isa 9:6 and Isa 10:21 "God".

    So the NWT itself is saying that Jehovah and Jesus have the same title "Mighty God".

    How can this be if there is only one God?

    Isaiah 43:10 ".......Before me there was no God formed and after me there continued to be none"

    Isaiah 44:6
    "This is what Jehovah has said.........I am the first and I am the last and besides me there is no God."

    Again which brings us back to Rev 22:13 where Jesus calls himself "the first and the last"

    To say that Jesus is a god contradicts what scripture says about having other gods beside Jehovah. How can Jesus be a god if Jehovah says there are no other god was formed after Him.?

    It only works if Jehovah and Jesus are the same person.
    _________________
    "If you believe in the Gospel what you like, but reject in the Gospel what you don't like. Then its not the Gospel you believe but yourself." Augustine

  • theMadChristian
    theMadChristian

    TRINITY

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    I'm warning you right away that I'm only providing hit-and-run comments on this thread. It's just that the title is so, so....funny. Some of my favorite lines so far:

    zico: Lol, you're not gonna end a 1600 year old argument with this one post! :)
    greendawn:

    Leolaia gave the crux of the matter

    THIS is how I view the futility of the arguments on the nature of God:

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