by Perry 450 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Vinny, what is your God doing when children are being beaten, raped, molested, or otherwise tortured?
Is He smiling?
Is He sleeping?
Is He crying?
Is He wishing He could do something to stop it?
Please enlighten us. Please. I beg you. In all sincerity.
Vinny has already shown his intellectual dishonesty regarding the Einstein thing. He has repeatedly been shown actual quotes from Einstein that contradict what he claims Einstein to believe. Why should we expect intellectual integrity from him on any other topic? I guess that's what happens when you spend your life looking through the ass end of a keychain souvenir viewmaster.
Lookey folks who came to visit:
My fav person on JWD.
RIGHT HERE:
Vinny BWAHHAHAHAHA,
The last time Odrade stopped by she received her "OSCAR MAYAR BOLOGNA AWARD" FOR LAMEST REPLY,
RIGHT HERE:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/132307/2365636/post.ashx#2365636
What is far more interesting in that thread is how you have ignored Terry's rebuttal of your ludicrous logic.
Of course, using logic has never been a requirement for the religiously insane, as you have proved with more than your usual flair.
BWAHAHAHAH sent in the clown.
HS
So... if I'm totally wrong (and lame) that it's NOT intellectual dishonesty for you to continue to insist that Einstein was a theist and a Christian, in the face of overwhelming evidence from Einstein's own mouth and pen to the contrary, what would you call it? Furthermore, why should it matter one whit how many intelligent people believe (or not) in a Christian God, if you are right, you should have no need for the logical fallacy of appealing to authority in order to bolster your arguments? As far as I know, "this smart guy believes it so it must be true," was never a particularly good tactic for presenting fact.
Odrade did win two Oscars for the most lame replies on two different threads. I guess that deserves some extra attention for her tonight.
http://www.friesian.com/spinoza.htm
Just google Spinoza's God if you do not know what that means.
"5- Alan F, what does it say to YOU when people such as Einstein, Copernicus, Sir Francis Bacon, Johannes Kepler, Galileo, Descartes, Newton, Boyle, Faraday, Mendel, Kelvin, Max Planck, and thousands of others scientists, philosophers, leaders such as Ghandi, MLK, every single President elected and many other successful people as well as BILLIONS of others believe in a Supreme Intelligent Designer and REJECT ATHEISM OUTRIGHT."
**** Sorry, but YOU are wrong Odrade. Here are just a few quotes Einstein made:
“My position concerning God is that of an agnostic. I am convinced that a vivid consciousness of the primary importance of moral principles for the betterment and ennoblement of life does not need the idea of a law-giver, especially a law-giver who works on the basis of reward and punishment.”
Albert Einstein in a letter to M. Berkowitz, October 25, 1950; Einstein Archive 59-215; from Alice Calaprice, ed., The Expanded Quotable Einstein, Princeton, New Jersey: Princeton University Press, 2000, p. 216.
pantheism |'pan?e?iz?m| |?pøn?i'?z?m| |?pan?i??z(?)m|
noun
1 a doctrine that identifies God with the universe, or regards the universe as a manifestation of God.
2 rare worship that admits or tolerates all gods.
*****Like I said, do the math. Einstein KNEW all these incredible features did not just come to exist on their own.
And just WHAT IS an Atheist, which Einstein himself CLARIFIED, (in print) that he was NOT?
atheism: noun (the theory or belief that God does not exist).
Einstein DID NOT believe in Atheism. Atheism is the belief that God does NOT EXIST. Wake up Terry and smell the coffee. You seem to strike out quite a bit lately.
Memory refreshed again?
(Love ya though... and you do have two Oscars from me to prove it).
It's abaddon, Odrade's competitor for the oscar of lame replies this time.
Vinny
I see hilary showed up for a second.
Did hilary reply to his being buried?
NOPE
NOPE
Dear Vinny
Firstly, lets address your rather lengthy ramblings on Einstein. He was a Physicist, not a religious expert, who was raised a Jew. He like many of us on this board was raised with a religious belief and therefore it is understandable that he would have 'respect' for the theory of there being a creator. Who is to say that had he lived to this day, he would not have changed his mind about the origin of life, as more scientific proof becomes available. Certainly this is what many religious organisations have done, changed there minds as proof has become available. Many churches have in fact come into line with the observed facts that support evolution and welded it to their own mystical inherited beliefs in a 'God'.
Secondly please do not confuse automobiles with organisms. It makes for a very poor argument. The simplest answer to your argument, and I hesitate to use it because it is such a 'limp' argument in the first place, is that just because a car has a creator does not mean that the person responsible for 'creating' it is still alive today. So, if I were a 'believer', a rhetorical question I may be asking myself in light of world conditions is, Is God still alive?
We have evidence that single cells multiply. We have proof that energy transforms or takes on different forms. It is proven that complex chemicals can emerge from simpler chemicals. We have proof that conditions on earth are suitable to support life.
You argue that life could have not come from 'nothing'. Therefore the onus lies with you to prove that there ever was a time of nothingness. Gods or the bibles version of life requires a beginning. Science does not require a beginning because there is no 'proof' that there ever was nothingness. You expect people to believe in a 'creator' who had no beginning, but on the other hand to accept that life cannot come from nothing. So where did 'God' come from? What circumstance gave rise to this 'God'? To accept that he has always been, is no more admissible than belief that the universe has always been, that there never was a time of nothingness. It is somewhat primitive thinking to think that all things need a beginning and an end.
There are many concepts of how life came about on this planet earth including Abiogenesis, Panspermia and who knows what the future holds in the way of established fact about the origin of life. Evolution is supported by a huge amount of observed fact. Observation contradicting evolution as the origin of humankind is on the other hand practically non existent.
As you quite rightly stated atheists do not believe in the existence of a 'God'. Some were once believers, so please dont insult the intelligent thought and study that has led them to such conclusion. Because they choose not to buy into a belief system based on being threatened with (eternal) violence does not require a so called 'spanking' from supposed christians. Because they choose to accept scientifc proof, established fact and observation and wait on what has yet to be discovered, makes them in my eyes rational human beings, free of mind controlling teachings that are in the very least 'confused' and at most based on 'mysticism and fear'.
You stick with your 'God', though I am quite sure you are totally unaware of his beginnings. I am quite sure that you have not studied the ways in which religions have changed to adapt to social climate, how montheistic religions originated from polytheistic belief systems and that who you now serve was probably a 'storm' god, one of about 70 worshipped at one point in history by your ancestors. You stick with your 'God' who if he is all powerful, stands by whilst atrocities are committed in his name, and allows countless other evils to be visited on his creation.
Just dont try to sell him to others, like he is some miracle cure for all the ailments human kind faces, and suggest those that choose not to worship or believe in him are idiots that require a good spanking.
Fifi
In response to the beautiful pictures on the first post, yes it truly is awesome. I couldn't be bothered reading 19 pages of Believers vs. Athiests because I could see it getting nasty and pointless. The debate of Creation vs. Evolution has been going on for decades and is NOT going to be settled here on JWD.
Vinny, through your posts you keep referring to 'chance' as an atheist view of life.
For my clarification, are you suggesting that the basis of evolution is chance.
steve
