Isn't God Awesome?

by Perry 450 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

theinfamousone

hey vinny,
which watchtower are you quoting this time???
BWAHAHAHAHAHA
the infamous one
Odrade

Wow. Explains a lot. Vinny left the JWs, but he's still a bible literalist. Unbelievable. I'll bet if he told all those genius scientist deists that he so admires that he believes God had fisticuffs in heaven and threw a literal satan down here to provide literal tests to mankind until he decided enough was enough and literally changed carnivorous lions into herbivorous ones, they would likely respond something like this:
Bwahahhahhahahahahahaaaaaaa!!!!!
LMAOOOOOOOOO!!!
Wahhhhhaaaaaaaaaahahahaha!!!!
Look at the silly little bible literalist fundie!!!!
Bwahahaha!!!!!!
Bad news for the silly little fundie Vinny!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!
Paralipomenon

Living things aren't a single matter.

All a human body is a collection of dead matter working together.

Again your comparison is flawed because you do not understand basic biology.

Here is the chemical breakdown of an average human body, ranked by volume:

oxygen
carbon
hydrogen
nitrogen
calcium
phosphorus
potassium
sulfur
sodium
chlorine
magnesium
iron
fluorine
zinc
silicon
rubidium
strontium
bromine
lead
copper
aluminum
cadmium
cerium
barium
iodine
tin
titanium
boron
nickel
selenium
chromium
manganese
arsenic
lithium
cesium
mercury
germanium
molybdenum
cobalt
antimony
silver
niobium
zirconium
lanthanium
gallium
tellurium
yttrium
bismuth
thallium
indium
gold
scandium
tantalum
vanadium
thorium
uranium
samarium
beryllium
tungsten

Now please tell me which of those chemicals is defined as "life" as opposed to "dead matter".

In fact, the human body is, get ready for your "BWAHAHAHAHA" here...

100% dead matter!

The thing is sometimes this dead matter joins up with other dead matter to make more complex matter.

For instance when two parts of Hydrogen mix with one part of Oxygen they form water. (did you notice that the human body has alot of hydrogen and oxygen?)

Now in the universe there are all these chemical elements lying around and forming and breaking up with each other. They make compounds and these compounds make more complex compounds.

At what point are you classifying these "dead matter" compounds as "life"?

Did you even think of a baseline before you made the assumption?

So is this it? Can I add this as another notch in my belt for this claim?

I think I'll just start keeping track for my own amusement:

Outrageous Theories Debunked Unchallenged:

Vinny: 2
Perry: 1
Para: 0

Time to go home, I hope when I get to work tomorrow Vinny will have an attempt to earn one of those debunking points back.
Vinny

SATANS LITTLE HELPER SAID:..."I notice that you haven't replied to my last post, that is because you have no argument, other than to repeat the same incorrect beliefs without proof over and over again. You have had your ass handed to you on a plate, you lose. Just an aside, your preoccupation with spanking is something you should really discuss with a therapist.

But just because he will come back whining again, I will POST IT AGAIN.

1- Everything which has a beginning has a cause. This an understood and accepted principle in human civilizations throughout the earth. If it had a beginning, then somebody or something made it. Fairly simple. The computers each of us are using at this moment had to be made by somebody. Mine was made by Apple, for example. But if there were no name mentioned at all, we still know that somebody had to make it. Design begets a designer.

2- The Universe, including our earth (and all life upon the earth) had a beginning. Most scientists believe in the 'Big Bang" theory. While omitting God altogether, the common belief is that it did have a definite beginning and is still developing and expanding.

3- Therefore, the Universe, that had a beginning, must also have a Cause. That Cause, in my opinion is God.

4-The bible, in my opinion, is a reliable source of information. It claims to be authored by God. There is an abundance of evidence that it could be authored by God. As briefly listed on another thread (now defunct) here is a very short list of reasons why I believe the bible is from God and thus a reliable, trustworthy source of information today:

"For me, the idea that all four of gospel writers just made up these accounts about Jesus Christ is not something I quickly buy into. The way they claim to have changed their lives, leaving many significant occupations and other personal things behind, leads me to believe they sure found something powerfully persuasive in this person called Christ. They also admit their mistakes which only adds to their credibility in my mind. Likewise the bible writer Paul; he certainly had something dramatic happen to him. He claims to have had a vision of Christ himself, became blind, went to Ananias as instructed and received his sight back. Then completely changed his direction from a persecutor of Christians to becoming an ardent member, one of the foremost of the apostles actually, spearheading the preaching of Christ to the Gentiles. The apostles did not even trust or believe him initially, which again, only adds to the believability in my opinion. I guess all of these writers could have just made these things up. That is possible. But it is also possible they happened just as were written. And if so, then we have some very interesting events taking place that would support Jesus' claim to be God's son, representing God himself. And if so, then what he says about God, about the earth, the future, life... can be and should be seriously considered. I would consider such a source as very reliable. Very trustworthy, *IF* these accounts about him are true.

The many prophecies written that had exact fulfillments adds ever more weight to possibility of the bible being more than just some good book. The bible's statement that the earth is round, and that it hangs upon nothing, though men at that time believed the earth was flat, again adds value to the claim that it is from a higher source than men. Are all of these just mere coincidences? It is possible, I guess. But it's also possible that these facts give evidence that the source of these prophecies and scientific accuracies is from a much higher source than humans, who cannot predict the future with any kind of certainty. There are not only a couple of such prophecies, but literally hundreds which exact, detailed fulfillment.

There is secular testimony as well, that Christ did exist and did perform miraculous events. The calendar we use today is based on the very year he was born. Just a coincidence? A person that really did not exist at all, or whose accomplishments were greatly exaggerated? Possible, I guess. But possibly not. The scriptures contain numerous accounts of miracles where people were brought back to life, sick and dying were healed, people were miraculously fed whether from food falling out of the sky or a few fishes feeding thousands, olive oil and bread jars that never ran out and other examples. Sea's were parted, were walked on and calmed down upon commands. You do not hear stories like this today, with hundreds of eye-witnesses to collaborate. This collection of books is available in over 2000 languages today. It the worlds best selling book of all time. The information contained is also very practical for those that wish to believe it and apply it. The Golden Rule for example. Children obeying their parents is another. Husbands loving their wives as their own bodies makes good marriages even better. And answer when mild turns away rage is a proven valuable principle in life. Jesus sermon on the mount in Matthew chapters 5-7 is still considered by many to be the greatest speech ever given. Priceless gems for many.

Is it possible then that this bible is from God? I believe it is possible, and even very probable. If so, if it is from God himself, then the very question as to how life arrived is answered. Because it also tells the reader that God himself made these things that we see today. No soup-like conditions that somehow evolved into the beautiful yet complex systems we see surrounding us today. It answers many of man's perplexing questions. Does it answer everything? No, it does not. Yet it does say there are new scrolls to be opened. It talks about everlasting life being possible for those that believe and apply God's sons teachings in his life. A life where death and pain and mourning are things of the past. Not the kind of life we see today. It promises these things we see causing pain and death and heartaches will be done away completely and permanently. That is a beautiful hope. Many other answers, too many to list here are given as well. If the bible is true then, the human race has much to look forward to.

For me, it does make sense. It does offer hope. It is worth putting my trust in. It does offer answers as well as a good measure of comfort. It is believable."

5- The bible tells us that God had NO beginning.

Psalm 90:2 ...Even from time indefinite to time indefinite you are God.

psalm 93:2... You are from time indefinite to time indefinite.

Isaiah 57:15 ....God is ‘the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity’

Revelation 15:3 ...righteous and true are your ways, King of Eternity.Revelation 15:3 ...righteous and true are your ways, King of Eternity.

If the bible is inspired of God (as I have sound reason to believe, by the reasons posted above), and if what it says is true that God had No Beginning, where then is the need for a Cause or designer? This is perhaps the crux of my argument then; NOBODY created God, because according inspired scripture, God had no beginning, hence eliminating the need for a cause altogether. This is the only example, the one sole instance where this principle would apply. All other features of the universe including the earth as well as all life on the earth, the spirit world and anything else anywhere, had a beginning and thus demands a cause. God, the intelligent designer himself, exclusively, is this one sole exception.

No human beings were there in the beginning of the universe to witness what exactly happened. Brilliant minds today can only guess and try to formulate theories. The bible says pointedly: "In the Beginning God Created the heavens and the earth". There is sound and reasonable reasons to believe, as many (including some of the most intellectual minds ever born) in Creation. That all life as we know it today was deigned by the only one who is not subject to time, the only one that never had a beginning. The only one that is not confined by space and bound by physical laws. Laws in which he created and therefore would not be subject to. None of which here is a stretch to either grasp, believe or understand. It makes sense to me. It is believable, logical and reasonable.

Some like to suggest, "well you cannot prove this, so you really cannot say with any certainty that you believe this". And for those that do feel this way, I disagree. I should add, I "respectfully" disagree. I have no problems with others that feel differently than I. But I can believe and do believe in the existence of God, through more than just faith itself. Though faith is an integral part of this equation too. In fact it is needed to a degree. But there is also EVIDENCE, logical PROOF that an Intelligent Designer is responsible for all features of life today. Complex, intelligent, purposeful systems that reflect the intellect of that designer himself. There are numerous court cases that have gone to trial where all of the evidence is circumstantial. Perhaps no body has been found. Still, today's technology now allows trace evidences and other signs to give very convincing testimony that a crime was committed. Juries have been thoroughly and unitedly and fully convinced to convict criminals based on such outside, circumstantial evidence exclusively. Likewise then, there are numerous "evidences" that all life arrived due to the hand of a Master Designer. The complexity and uniformity, the order and structure, the harmony of system after system, feature after feature, from the smallest molecules to the incredible living breathing life forces surrounding us all, to the incredibly complex earth where so many systems are just perfectly balanced all working together to allow life to exist are evidences to me that somebody surely must be responsible. The far more complex, far more powerful and awe inspiring universe with star after star, planet after planet solar system after solar system all beautifully organized, with inconceivable, unimaginable amounts of power and energy, give further testimony, in my mind, that these things did not just "happen" through some unguided series of accidents. Just some fortuitous combination of circumstances. A blind fluke of good fortune?

As Einstein astutely stated, "God does not play dice with the universe". So though we cannot see God, we can see EVIDENCE that he does indeed exist. Just as we cannot see our own brains or gravity, or oxygen etc... the evidence that these things are nonetheless real is overwhelming. For myself then, evidence that God exists is even more powerful. The evidence supports this belief for me.

After an examination of much evidence, I am 100 percent certain that these things surrounding us are the result of a Superior Designer. In my mind and in my sincere opinion God DOES exist. And He is responsible for my being here right now. I owe him the gratitude he so deserves. I thank him for letting me live and exist. Sure I am also here because my mother and father married, had intimate relations and I was born. But that process in itself is so complex, such an outstanding system of design that, for me, the credit rightfully goes to the Creator himself. This is why HE deserves the credit; my parents had me because a masterful designer created this process called REPRODUCTION. In fact there was very little on their part, to be truthful. He is worthy of worship in my mind. My questions as to how life arose are answered.

Now satans little helper, I have answered your questions. It is time for you to answer mine.

Please tell those following this thread just how these very complicated systems in the universe and the earth, along with all life forms upon the earth ORIGINATED. Just how did they START? If Science cannot create life, from non-living matter, in a controlled, scientific environment, nor give life BACK to a dead person or animal (though having all the parts needed right in front of them), then how could all these very things come to exist without ANY intellectual force behind them at all? Just FELL into place?
free2beme

God is a spoiled child, who is upset that somone else is playing with his toys. Rather then handling it in a mature way, he smashes the toys.
theinfamousone

vinny said "there is a red corvette in south dakota"
bwahahahahaha
there are several, they were built by intelligent people...... but thats besides the point, why? well your theory of intelligent people having to design and build things still does not prove your gods existance... no no no, it just proves that we are smart.... you have yet to answer this question directly.,.. your argument is that everything must have a begininning and something must have caused that beginning... this is how you are so sure that god exists.... what caused gods beginning?????
it may be a rhetorical question... may even be laughed at... but you have not answered it... where the hell did god start... and if you cannot answer that with a real answer and not one of your beat around the bush answers.... well, you can no longer laugh your laugh at the atheists.... they have put out a question to you that you cannot answer... and they are using the exact same logic as you!!!!
and what will destroy your ego even more is this... if god had a beginning and an intelligent designer as you are so sure he must have, what created he that created god? i mean everything has a beginning... where does it all begin?
dead matter? all matter....
vinny, riddle me this; how can someone who is using circular logic to prove the unporveable really look down upon those using the exact same logic to disprove his logic? we have sunk to your level and the purple flying monkey is still blowing past your ears.....
the infamous one
fifi40

And there in Vinny I think you have identified the gulf that exists between atheists and believers. Your faith gives you a hope. A hope that extends beyond death. Death is the biggest common fear shared by human kind. And because of that fear we seek answers. Religions are able to exploit that fear..........they seek to give hope and answers, but at the same time they seek to control their members through that fear.
You choose to belive or have faith in a 'God', without factual proof. And nobody should criticise you for that choice. It makes your life more comfortable, it makes your fears easier to deal with. And who knows you may even be right.
But the fact is, and it is a HUGE fact that nobody actually knows. Nobody knows how life came to be. Nobody knows if the bible is inspired of God. Nobody knows if Hindu. Jew, Christian or Muslim is right. Nobody knows if there was ever a time of nothingness. Nobody knows if at one point conditions were right for life to begin subject to forces of the universe, and that cause and effect has brought us from that first spark of life to what we are today.
You talk about a these 'amazing things coming together at one time' and so I have to ask to what you refer. If nothing else surely science has taught you that life has not always been the same as we know it on this planet. That over many millions of years plants, animals etc have come and gone and that life has evolved in line with the very cause and effect cycle that you use to support a precise beginning.
Again I repeat to you prove that there was a time of nothingness. Remember that such a time needs only to exist in the minds of believers to support their concept of a creator.
I have to say your biblical explanation of why God allows bad on the earth was astoundingly similar to the teachings of the JWs. It feels like you left the religion but not the teachings.
And whilst I can respect you for your beliefs, I will say this, you speak of what the bible teaches you to do and I quote your words 'help others come to know him' and I have to say that over the past few days your repeated talk of giving atheists a spanking and your derogatory comments have done nothing to further this cause. Instead you have come over as rude, fundamental, arrogant and downright nasty!!!!
FI
Vinny

ODRADE SHOWS UP AGAIN AND SAYS:...."At some point the mods are going to realize that he's only interested in a flame war and he will BWAHAHAHA his way to a ban".:::I agree, I wonder why he's still here?
stevenyc

Vinny,

Ultimately your augments will always fail a scientific approach. Your belief that you find it inconceivable that, life and the universe just came about by chance, is an honest and fair one. But, this just demonstrates that you don't know much about Darwinian evolution. You have also shown that you don't know that much about what the bible says about creation, if you consider it factual. (Let me know if I've misjudged your take on the bible as being factual).

As an aid, let me explain a few things for you. This may help you re-evaluate the points you use for your argument.

1) Darwinian evolution is not about chance, it's about natural selection. Very different.

2) Things have come into existence, repeatably demonstrated for decades, with NO cause.

3) The bible's explanation of well known natural events, demonstrates a level of scientific knowledge available to the bronze age. Fascinating, however, desperately incorrect.

4) Your logic that everything is designed EXCEPT God doesn't stand up to your own 'Red Corvette' test. Because you introduced acceptable exceptions to your rule, it is only acceptable to test for other exceptions to your rule. Not to do so would be lazy.

In fact I'll go further with point 3 and say I find it contemptuous that you would slander people who are trying to discover other exceptions to your rule.

5) Some points of biblical prophecy 'proof' texts, actually are disputed in the bible. Jesus' birth place being one.

Overall, it's OK to say you find it too incredible that a designer couldn't have been involved in the creation of the universe. Many respectable people find it hard to conceive as well. But, if you are trying to dismantle known and proven scientific examples, then, do some research first.

steve
Vinny

Parellpomenenan whined that vinny could not answer his questions.

This is why you athesists are STUCK with red corvette on your foreheads for life. It applies, it fits, it works.

Isn't God Awesome?

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