Comments You Will Not Hear at the 5-20-07 WT Review (Humbly Submit)

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    blondie

    Comments You Will Not Hear at the 05-20-07 WT Study (April 1, 2007, pages 26-30)(HUMBLY SUBMITTING TO LOVING SHEPHERDS)

    Review comments will be in red

    WT material from today's WT will be in black

    Quotes from other sources will be in quotes boxes

    w = Watchtower

    g = Awake

    jv = Proclaimers book

    Bible translations

    www.biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible

    WT publications

    www.reexamine.org

    WT child abuse

    www.silentlambs.org

    Blood issue

    www.ajwrb.org

    United Nations

    http://www.randytv.com/secret/unitednations.htm

    HUMBLY SUBMITTING TO LOVING SHEPHERDS

    "Be obedient to those who are taking the lead among you and be submissive."-HEBREWS 13:17.

    Opening Comments

    START OF ARTICLE

    Q1, 2) What scriptures show that Jehovah and Jesus are loving Shepherds?

    1) Jehovah God and his Son, Jesus Christ, are loving Shepherds. Isaiah prophesied: "Look! The Sovereign Lord Jehovah himself will come even as a strong one, and his arm will be ruling for him.... Like a shepherd he will shepherd his own drove. With his arm he will collect together the lambs; and in his bosom he will carry them. Those giving suck he will conduct with care."-Isaiah 40: 10,11.

    OT Example—Isaiah; who is the shepherd, Jah?

    Does the WTS have elders looking for sheep or do the sheep have to look for the shepherds?

    *** w02 3/1 p. 16 How Precious Is the Truth to You? ***

    In Scotland some young lambs were grazing in a pasture when one of them strayed to the side of a hillock and tumbled onto a ledge below. It was uninjured, but it was frightened and unable to climb back. So it started to bleat plaintively. Its mother heard it, and she too began to bleat until the shepherd came and retrieved the young lamb.
    Notice the sequence of events. The lamb called for help, the ewe added her voice to its cries, and the alerted shepherd sprang into action to rescue it. If a very young animal and its mother can sense danger and immediately call for help, should we not do the same when we stumble spiritually or face unexpected dangers from Satan’s world?

    2) That prophecy of restoration was first fulfilled when a Jewish remnant returned to Judah in 537 B.C.E. (2 Chronicles 36:22, 23) It was again fulfilled when the anointed remnant were delivered from "Babylon the Great" in 1919 by the Greater Cyrus, Jesus Christ. (Revelation 18:2; Isaiah 44:28) He is Jehovah's "arm" for ruling, collecting together the sheep and shepherding them with tender care. Jesus himself stated: "I am the fine shepherd, and I know my sheep and my sheep know me." John 10:14.

    537??? Can JWs explain this? What do you recommend for a resource to explain 586 BCE?

    In 1919 was the WTS clean spiritually based on their interpretation of the Bible: Birthdays, Christmas, use of cross and pyramidology; prayed for government; could be in military but not shoot.

    *** jv chap. 14 p. 200 "They Are No Part of the World" ***

    For some 35 years, Pastor Russell thought that the Great Pyramid of Gizeh was God’s stone witness, corroborating Biblical time periods. (Isa. 19:19) (until 1928)

    *** w87 6/15 p. 15 par. 3 Testing and Sifting in Modern Times ***

    The
    WatchTower had encouraged its readers to set aside May 30, 1918, as a day of prayer for victory for the democratic powers, as requested by the U.S. congress and by President Wilson.

    Q3) How does Jehovah show loving concern for the way his sheep are treated?

    3) The prophecy of Isaiah 40:10,11 emphasizes the tenderness with which Jehovah shepherds his people. (Psalm 23:1-6) During his earthly ministry, Jesus too showed tender concern for his disciples and for people in general. (Matthew 11:28-30; Mark 6: 34) Both Jehovah and Jesusdeplored the ruthlessness of the shepherds, or leaders, of Israel, who shamelessly neglected and exploited their flocks. (Ezekiel 34:2-10; Matthew 23:3, 4, 15) Jehovah promised: "I will save my sheep, and they will no longer become something for plunder; and I will judge between a sheep and a sheep. And I will raise up over them one shepherd, and he must feed them, even my servant David. He himself will feed them, and he himself will become their shepherd." (Ezekiel 34:22, 23) In this time of the end, Jesus Christ, the Greater David, is the "one shepherd" whom Jehovah has appointed over all His servants on earth, both the spirit-anointed Christians and the "other sheep." John 10:16.

    Jesus plays a secondary shepherd in the WTS

    His servants—ONLY JWS; do JWs call themselves Christians or JWs in their publications?

    (Matthew 15:6-11) . . .And

    so YOU have made the word of God invalid because of YOUR tradition. 7 YOU hypocrites , Isaiah aptly prophesied about YOU, when he said, 8 ‘This people honors me with their lips, yet their heart is far removed from me. 9 It is in vain that they keep worshiping me, because they teach commands of men as doctrines .’" 10 With that he called the crowd near and said to them: "Listen and get the sense of it: 11 Not what enters into [his] mouth defiles a man; but it is what proceeds out of [his] mouth that defiles a man."

    How have the "loving shepherds" in the WTS made God’s word invalid, teach commands of men as doctrines…where in the Bible does it say that beards are unchristian?

    *** w

    75 8/15 pp. 500-501 par. 9 Do Not Let Yourself Be Ensnared by Fads and Entertainment ***

    Extreme hair styles can easily lead one into a trap of the Devil also, and cause others to stumble. For example, a young man in the United States was making fine progress in his study of the Bible, and he was moved to share with an experienced Witness in preaching to others about the good things he was learning from the Bible.

    From early youth he had let his beard grow, and since some in the business community wore beards, he felt that his wearing one in preaching to others would be acceptable generally. But in speaking to a lady he was unable to do more than introduce himself, when she said: "I’m sorry, young man, I do not want to become involved in student revolt."

    In 2007 do people think of beards as a student revolt?

    Heavenly Gifts to the Congregation

    Q4, 5) (a) What precious gift has Jehovah given to his people on earth? (b) What gift has Jesus given to his congregation?

    4) By raising up over His servants on earth "one shepherd"-Jesus Christ-Jehovah gave a precious gift to the Christian congregation. This gift of a heavenly Leader was prophesied at Isaiah 55:4: "Look! As a witness to the national groups I have given him, as a leader and commander to the national groups." Both anointed Christians and members of the "great crowd" are gathered from among all national groups, tribes, peoples, and tongues. (Revelation 5:9, 10; 7:9) They make up an international congregation, "one flock," under the leadership of "one shepherd," Christ Jesus.

    According to the WTS only the anointed are the Christian congregation.

    *** dx86-06 Anointed Christians ***

    ANOINTED CHRISTIANS

    (See also Christian Congregation ; Faithful and Discreet Slave ; Little Flock; New Covenant; 144,000; Remnant; Spiritual Israel)

    5) Jesus, in turn, has given a precious gift to his congregation on earth. He has provided faithful undershepherds who, in imitation of Jehovah and Jesus, shepherd the flock with tender care. The apostle Paul spoke of this loving gift in his letter to Christians in Ephesus. He wrote: "`When he ascended on high he carried away captives; he gave gifts in men.'... He gave some as apostles, some as prophets, some as evangelizers, some as shepherds and teachers, with a view to the readjustment of the holy ones, for ministerial work, for the building up of the body of the Christ."-Ephesians 4:8, 11, 12.

    Are non-anointed JWs the body of Christ?

    Were Philip’s daughters prophets?

    His congregation

    ONLY JWS

    Q6) How were anointed overseers who served on bodies of elders depicted at Revelation 1:16, 20, and what can be said of appointed elders who are of the other sheep?

    6) These "gifts in men" are overseers, or elders, appointed by Jehovah and his Son, through holy spirit, to shepherd the sheep with tenderness. (Acts 20:28, 29) To begin with, these overseers were all anointed Christian men. At Revelation 1:16, 20, those who served on bodies of elders within the anointed congregation were symbolized by "stars" or "angels" in Christ's right hand, that is, under his control. In this time of the end, however, with the number of anointed overseers still on earth ever dwindling, the vast majority of Christian elders in the congregations are of the other sheep. Since these are appointed by representatives of the Governing Body under the leadings of the holy spirit, they too can be said to be under the right hand (or, under the direction) of the Fine Shepherd, Jesus Christ. (Isaiah 61:5, 6) Since the elders in our congregations submit to Christ, the Head of the congregation

    , they deserve our full cooperation .-Colossians 1:18.

    Did Jesus fully cooperate with the religious leaders or was the Bible of first importance?

    (Matthew 15:1-11)

    15 Then there came to Jesus from Jerusalem Pharisees and scribes, saying: 2 "Why is it your disciples overstep the tradition of the men of former times? For example, they do not wash their hands when about to eat a meal." 3 In reply he said to them: "Why is it YOU also overstep the commandment of God because of YOUR tradition? 4 For example, God said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘Let him that reviles father or mother end up in death.’ 5 But YOU say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother: "Whatever I have by which you might get benefit from me is a gift dedicated to God," 6 he must not honor his father at all.’ And so YOU have made the word of God invalid because of YOUR tradition. 7 YOU hypocrites, Isaiah aptly prophesied about YOU, when he said, 8This people honors me with their lips, yet their heart is far removed from me. 9 It is in vain that they keep worshiping me, because they teach commands of men as doctrines.’" 10 With that he called the crowd near and said to them: "Listen and get the sense of it: 11 Not what enters into [his] mouth defiles a man; but it is what proceeds out of [his] mouth that defiles a man."

    What did Jesus say to the religious leaders? Can you imagine saying the same to elders that disregard the Bible?

    (

    Matthew 23:1-36) 23 Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to his disciples, saying: 2 "The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the seat of Moses. 3 Therefore all the things they tell YOU, do and observe, but do not do according to their deeds, for they say but do not perform . 4 They bind up heavy loads and put them upon the shoulders of men, but they themselves are not willing to budge them with their finger . 5 All the works they do they do to be viewed by men; for they broaden the [scripture-containing] cases that they wear as safeguards, and enlarge the fringes [of their garments]. 6 They like the most prominent place at evening meals and the front seats in the synagogues, 7 and the greetings in the marketplaces and to be called Rabbi by men ( elder or princes or gifts in men or overseer ). 8 But YOU, do not YOU be called Rabbi, for one is YOUR teacher (but the WTS says only men can teach; specifically elders ), whereas all YOU are brothers. 9 Moreover, do not call anyone YOUR father on earth, for one is YOUR Father, the heavenly One. 10 Neither be called ‘leaders,’ for YOUR Leader is one, the Christ ( take the lead ). 11 But the greatest one among YOU must be YOUR minister. 12 Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself ( what elders have humbled themselves…instead JWs must submit and obey the elders )will be exalted. 13 "Woe to YOU, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because YOU shut up the kingdom of the heavens before men; for YOU yourselves do not go in, neither do YOU permit those on their way in to go in. 14 —— 15 "Woe to YOU, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because YOU traverse sea and dry land to make one proselyte, and when he becomes one YOU make him a subject for Ge·hen´na twice as much so as yourselves. 16 "Woe to YOU, blind guides, who say, ‘If anyone swears by the temple, it is nothing; but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is under obligation.’ 17 Fools and blind ones! Which, in fact, is greater, the gold or the temple that has sanctified the gold? 18 Also, ‘If anyone swears by the altar, it is nothing; but if anyone swears by the gift on it, he is under obligation.’ 19 Blind ones! Which, in fact, is greater, the gift or the altar that sanctifies the gift? 20 Therefore he that swears by the altar is swearing by it and by all the things on it; 21 and he that swears by the temple is swearing by it and by him that is inhabiting it; 22 and he that swears by heaven is swearing by the throne of God and by him that is sitting on it. 23 "Woe to YOU, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because YOU give the tenth of the mint and the dill and the cumin, but YOU have disregarded the weightier matters of the Law, namely, justice and mercy and faithfulness. These things it was binding to do, yet not to disregard the other things. 24 Blind guides, who strain out the gnat but gulp down the camel! 25 "Woe to YOU, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because YOU cleanse the outside of the cup and of the dish, but inside they are full of plunder and immoderateness. 26 Blind Pharisee, cleanse first the inside of the cup and of the dish, that the outside of it also may become clean. 27 "Woe to YOU, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because YOU resemble whitewashed graves, which outwardly indeed appear beautiful but inside are full of dead men’s bones and of every sort of uncleanness. 28 In that way YOU also, outwardly indeed, appear righteous to men, but inside YOU are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness. 29 "Woe to YOU, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because YOU build the graves of the prophets and decorate the memorial tombs of the righteous ones, 30 and YOU say, ‘If we were in the days of our forefathers, we would not be sharers with them in the blood of the prophets.’ 31 Therefore YOU are bearing witness against yourselves that YOU are sons of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Well, then, fill up the measure of YOUR forefathers. 33 "Serpents, offspring of vipers, how are YOU to flee from the judgment of Ge·hen´na? 34 For this reason, here I am sending forth to YOU prophets and wise men and public instructors. Some of them YOU will kill and impale, and some of them YOU will scourge in YOUR synagogues and persecute from city to city; 35 that there may come upon YOU all the righteous blood spilled on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zech·a·ri´ah son of Bar·a·chi´ah, whom YOU murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. 36 Truly I say to YOU, All these things will come upon this generation.

    Elders are called "princes" "chieftains" and "OVERseers" not "servants" up until the early 1970’s. Humble??? Can you imagine the elders washing your feet or even the feet of other elders?

    254 more anointed in 2007

    ….dwindling?

    Does the GB make the appointments?

    *** w01 1/15 p. 15 par. 16 Overseers and Ministerial Servants Theocratically Appointed ***

    Today, therefore, the Governing Body appoints qualified brothers at the branches to represent it in making appointments of elders and ministerial servants

    Vocabulary List

    Obey (obedient)

    Submission (submit)

    Accept leadership

    Willing cooperate ; full cooperation (cooperate, cooperation)

    Uncooperative spirit

    Full support (support)

    [Picture on page 27] Christian elders submit to Christ's leadership

    Notice the PC mix of the elder body; black, Asian, older white man, younger white man; notice the elder’s guidebooks and the Bibles. Elders rarely use the Bible because the guidebook and the BOE letters are more important including any notes from the CO. I heard of new elders who researched the Bible and were ridiculed by the older elders for using the Bible.

    Obedience and Submission

    Q7) What counsel did the apostle Paul give with regard to our attitude toward Christian overseers?

    7) Our heavenly Shepherds, Jehovah God and Jesus Christ, expect us to be obedient and submissive to the undershepherds whom they have placed in positions of responsibility within the congregation. (1 Peter 5:5) Under inspiration, the apostle Paul wrote: "Remember those who are taking the lead among you, who have spoken the word of God to you, and as you contemplate how their conduct turns out imitate their faith. Be obedient to those who are taking the lead among you and be submissive, for they are keeping watch over your souls as those who will render an account; that they may do this with joy and not with sighing, for this would be damaging to you."-Hebrews 13: 7,17.

    Obey God and Jesus or human men?

    Did Paul let Peter err in avoiding associating with Gentile Christians? Were the Christians then correct in following the example of even an apostle or "walking straight according to the truth of the good news"?

    (Galatians 2:11-14)

    11 However, when Ce´phas came to Antioch, I resisted him face to face, because he stood condemned. 12 For before the arrival of certain men from James, he used to eat with people of the nations; but when they arrived, he went withdrawing and separating himself, in fear of those of the circumcised class. 13 The rest of the Jews also joined him in putting on this pretense, so that even Bar´na·bas was led along with them in their pretense. 14 But when I saw they were not walking straight according to the truth of the good news, I said to Ce´phas before them all: "If you, though you are a Jew, live as the nations do, and not as Jews do, how is it that you are compelling people of the nations to live according to Jewish practice?"

    8). What does Paul invite us to "contemplate," and

    how should we "be obedient"?

    8) Notice that Paul invites us to "contemplate," or carefully observe, the outcome of the faithful conduct of the elders and to follow such examples of faith. Furthermore,

    he counsels us to be obedient and to submit to the direction of these appointed men. Bible scholar R. T. France explains that in the original Greek, the word here translated "be obedient " is not "the normal term for obedience, but literally `be persuaded,' implying a willing acceptance of their leadership." We obey the elders not only because we are directed to do so in God's Word but also because we are persuaded that they have Kingdom interests and our best interests at heart. We will certainly be happy if we willingly accept their leadership.

    What if not faithful as Peter was not? What if you had been in a congregation where a GB member disregarded the Bible? Should you go along with it "waiting for God" to fix it?

    What if we aren’t persuaded "because we are persuaded that they have Kingdom interests and our best interests at heart"?

    9). Why is it necessary for us to

    "be submissive " in addition to being obedient?

    9) What, though, if we are not convinced that in a certain case the elders' direction is the best way of doing things? That is where submission comes into play. It is easy to obey when everything is clear and we agree, but we will show that we are truly s ubmissive if we yield even when we do not personally understand the direction provided. Peter, who later became an apostle, showed this kind of submission .-Luke 5:4, 5.

    Did Jesus follow the religious leaders or the Bible? Would we have followed Peter and not associated with the Gentile Christians?

    What, though, if we are not convinced that in a certain case the elders' direction is the best way of doing things

    It is easy to

    obey when everything is clear and we agree, but we will show that we are truly submissive if we yield even when we do not personally understand the direction provided.

    Four Reasons for

    Willing Cooperation

    Q10, 11) In what way have overseers "spoken the word of God" to their fellow Christians in the first century and today?

    10) At Hebrews 13:7, 17, quoted above, the apostle Paul gives four reasons why we should be

    obedient and submissive to Christian overseers (or servants?). The first is that they "have spoken the word of God" to us. Recall that the "gifts in men" that Jesus gives to the congregation are for "the readjustment of the holy ones." (Ephesians 4:11, 12) He readjusted the thinking and conduct of firstcentury Christians by means of faithful undershepherds, some of whom were inspired to write letters to the congregations. He used such spirit-appointed overseers to guide and build up the early Christians.-1 Corinthians 16:15-18; 2 Timothy 2:2; Titus 1:5.

    Holy ones are only anointed, 144,000, FDS. What about the 6.5 million non holy ones?

    OBEDIENT AND SUBMISSIVE

    What if what the WTS representatives have not "spoken the word of God to us"?

    Superior authorities until 1929 secular authorities; from1929 to 1962 God and Jesus; 1962 to 2007 secular authorities

    http://www.jwfacts.com/index_files/superior.htm

    Sodom and Gomorrah resurrected?

    http://www.cftf.com/comments/blinking.html

    Woman required to scream when raped?

    http://www.freeminds.org/psych/rape.htm

    Do any today write inspired letters to the congregations per the WTS, no.

    11) Today, Jesus directs us by means of "the faithful and discreet slave," represented by its Governing Body and the appointed elders. (Matthew 24:45) Out of respect for "the chief shepherd," Jesus Christ, we heed Paul's counsel: "Have regard for those who are working hard among you and presiding over you in the Lord and admonishing you."-1 Peter 5:4; 1 Thessalonians 5:12; 1 Timothy 5:17.

    Out of respect for

    "the chief shepherd," Jesus Christ, we heed Paul's counsel: "Have regard for those who are working hard among you and presiding over you in the Lord

    Jesus = FDS = Governing Body

    Q12) How are overseers "keeping watch over [our] souls"?

    12) A second reason for c

    ooperatingwith Christian overseers is that "they are keeping watch over [our] souls." If they detect anything in our attitude or behavior that might endanger our spirituality, they are quick to give us needed counsel with a view to our readjustment. (Galatians 6:1) The Greek word translated "keeping watch" literally means "abstaining from sleep." According to one Bible scholar, it "implies the unflagging vigilance of the shepherd." In addition to their maintaining spiritual vigilance, elders may even lose sleep out of concern for our spiritual well-being. Should we not willingly cooperate with such loving undershepherds, who do their best to imitate the tender care given by Jesus Christ, "the great shepherd of the sheep"?-Hebrews 13:20.

    Cooperating with Christian overseers

    Willingly cooperate with such…undershepherds

    Bible scholar??

    Do you know this source?.

    The WTS/FDS/GB is very concerned about the "attitudes" of the rank and file.

    [Picture on page 29] There are many ways to demonstrate our submission to Jehovah's appointed shepherds (

    notice the WT conductor is vacuuming the KH…the manly assignment…most JW men never vacuum at home though. Many JWs don’t even join the school or cancel without notice…having been the wife of a school overseer.

    Q13) To whom and in what ways are the overseers and all Christians accountable?

    13) A third reason for our

    willingly cooperating with the overseers is that they keep watch over us "as those who will render an account." Overseers remember that they are undershepherds, serving under the heavenly Shepherds, Jehovah God and Jesus Christ. (Ezekiel 34:22-24) Jehovah is the Owner of the sheep, whom "he purchased with the blood of his own Son," and He holds the appointed overseers accountable for the way they treat His flock, which should be "with tenderness." (Acts 20:28, 29) Hence, all of us are answerable to Jehovah for the way we respond to his direction. (Romans 14:10-12) Our obedience to the appointed elders also gives evidence of our submission to Christ , the Head of the congregation.-Colossians 2:19.

    Willingly cooperating with overseers

    Our obedience to the appointed elders gives evidence of our submission to Christ

    {God} is the Owner of the sheep;

    does Jesus own the sheep ?

    (John 10:2-3)

    2 But he that enters through the door is shepherd of the sheep. 3 The doorkeeper opens to this one, and the sheep listen to his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. . .

    Our obedience

    to the appointed elders also gives evidence of our submission to Christ , the Head of the congregation.-Colossians 2:19.

    Obey elders = obeying Christ = not obeying elders is disobeying Jesus. Did Jesus disobey God when he disobeyed the religious leaders of his day?

    Q14) What could lead to Christian overseers' serving "with sighing," and with what results?

    14) Paul gave a fourth reason why we should humbly submit toChristian overseers . He wrote: "That they may do this with joy and not with sighing, for this would be damaging to you." (Hebrews 13:17) With their weighty responsibilities of teaching, shepherding, taking the lead in the preaching work, raising their families, and handling problems in the congregation, Christian elders carry a heavy load. (2 Corinthians 11:28, 29) If we fail to cooperate with them , we only add to their load. This would result in their "sighing." Our showing an uncooperative spirit is displeasing to Jehovah and could prove to be damaging to us. Instead, when we show proper respect andcooperation , the elders can carry out their duties with joy, and this contributes to unity and joyful participation in the Kingdom-preaching work.-Romans 15:5, 6.

    Humbly submit to Christian (JW) overseers

    Fail to cooperate with them

    Showing an uncooperative spirit is displeasing to (God)

    Proper respect and cooperation

    Did Jesus show "proper respect and cooperation" to the Pharisees when he called them hypocrites and blind guides?

    Demonstrating Our Submission

    Q15) How can we demonstrate our

    obedience and submission ?

    15) There are many practical ways in which we can

    cooperate with appointed overseers. With a view to adapting to new circumstances in the territory, have the elders arranged to hold meetings for field service on days and at times that require changes in our routine? Let us put forth an effort to s upport the new arrangements. We may receive unexpected blessings. Is the service overseer visiting our Congregation Book Study? Let us have as full a share as possible in the preaching work that week. Have we received an assignment in the Theocratic Ministry School? We should make it a point to be present and to carry out our assignment. Has the Congregation Book Study overseer announced that it is our group's turn to clean the Kingdom Hall? Let us give him full support , within the limits of our health and strength. In these and many other ways , we demonstrate our submission to the men whom Jehovah and his Son have appointed to care for the flock.

    Cooperate with appointed overseers

    Support the new arrangements

    Let us have a full share as possible

    Give him full support

    Demonstrate our submission to the men

    (evidently the rank and file are not a) going in the ministry at the assigned time but at a time convenient to them b) not giving their talks c) not cleaning the KH; very basic things…shows a "bad attitude."

    Q16) If an elder does not do things as directed, why would this not justify rebellion on our part?

    16) At times, an elder may not do things as directed by the faithful slave class and its Governing Body. If he continues acting this way, he will have to render an account to Jehovah, "the shepherd and overseer of [our] souls." (1 Peter 2:25) But any failure or mistakes on the part of certain elders would not justify an insubordinate attitude on our part . Jehovah does not bless disobedience and rebellion.-Numbers 12:1, 2, 9-11.

    BAD BAD BAD ELDERS, DISAGREEING WITH THE GB/FDS. Are they being removed?

    This must be bad if the WTS is publicizing this in a WT article.

    Jehovah Blesses

    Willing Cooperation

    17) What should be our attitude toward our overseers?

    17)

    Jehovah God knows that the men he has appointed as overseers are imperfect. Yet, he is using them, and by means of his spirit, he shepherds his people on earth. It is true of the elders-and of us all-that "the power beyond what is normal [is] God's and not that out of ourselves." (2 Corinthians 4:7) We should therefore thank Jehovah for what he is accomplishing by means of our faithful overseers, and we should show them willing cooperation .

    Willing cooperation

    Should show them willing cooperation

    The WTS plays the "imperfect" clause.

    *** w00 6/15 p. 16 par. 16 Honor the Ones Given Authority Over You ***

    Congregation elders are appointed by holy spirit, yet they are still imperfect and make mistakes

    *** w00 7/1 p. 20 Good Examples—Are You Benefiting From Them? ***

    In spite of their imperfections
    , however, elders can still, like Timothy, "become [examples] to the faithful ones in speaking, in conduct, in love, in faith, in chasteness." (

    *** w99 6/1 p. 15 par. 4 Appreciating the "Gifts in Men" ***

    Of course, elders do not want to misuse their authority, but they know that it is all too easy as imperfect humans to do so.

    *** w98 6/1 p. 17 par. 10 "Put Up a Hard Fight for the Faith"! ***

    It is all too easy to find fault with the appointed elders, for they are imperfect, as all of us are imperfect.

    *** w98 8/15 pp. 12-13 par. 13 Jehovah Should Be Our Confidence ***

    Accordingly, while elders today are imperfect, we still ought to recognize them as "[appointed by] the holy spirit

    *** w94 8/15 p. 29 Maintaining Harmony Between Elders and Ministerial Servants ***

    True, the elders are imperfect men, and it might be easy to find fault with them.

    18).

    By submitting to our overseers , what, in fact, are we doing?

    18) Overseers do their best to live up to Jehovah's description of shepherds appointed over his flock in the last days, as found at Jeremiah 3:15: "I will give you shepherds in agreement with my heart, and they will certainly feed you with knowledge and insight." Surely the elders in our midst are doing a fine job of teaching and

    protecting Jehovah's sheep . May we continue to show our appreciation for their hard work through our willing cooperation , our obedience , and our submission. In so doing, we will demonstrate our appreciation for our heavenly Shepherds, Jehovah God and Jesus Christ.

    Submitting to our overseers

    Willing cooperation

    Obedience

    Submission

    Demonstrate our appreciation

    By Way of Review

    • How have Jehovah and Jesus Christ proved themselves to be loving Shepherds?

    • In addition to obedience, why is s

    ubmissio n needed?

    • In what practical ways can we demonstrate our

    submission ?

    Concluding Comments

    Well, there seems to be elders who may not do things as directed by the faithful slave class and its Governing Body (paragraph 16). I wonder that they are doing and if the GB is eliminating them?

    Any failure or mistakes on the part of certain elders would not justify an insubordinate attitude on your part (paragraph 16)

    Is there an internal revolt at Bethel?

    I’m still struggling but see the doctor today. I think it is a case of too many doctors as Irreverent roared yesterday.

    I think of all of you with medical challenges and difficulties with family.

    Love, Blondie

  • darth frosty
    darth frosty

    Hey Blondie, thx as always.

  • WTWizard
    WTWizard

    What happens when elders do not follow the Bible? Basically, they are kept intact. In the meantime, people are supposed to follow the elders (which are essentially hounders) instead of the Bible. Note that the Bible says that we are to follow God instead of man, which they claim to follow literally. So, this alone makes them hypocrites.

    And I have had elders make decisions that were harmful to my personal development. They decided that, since I already had trouble meeting the opposite sex, that they would cash in on it. They met with the hounder-hounder (or CO) to have them all reject me at the assembly. All that would accept me were other men. And then they had the nerve to tell me that I should just meet men. I will not hold people that make crap decisions like this as deserving of double honor. I think that, once they made that decision with me, they should get double the work and double the sighing. Hence the missed meetings, blowing off service, and ultimately having me turn apostate. I wish Jesus would have shown up at that hounders' meeting!

  • zack
    zack

    Thank you for your excellent dissection of this spirit-directed drivel.

    Most of the people at the WT Study will parrot this info. and have not a clue as to how dishonest the WTS is in their applications of these scriptures.

    And always the "imperfect men" routine. Yet they make no such allowance for ministers in other churches.

    The truth is the GB doesn't want any Rank and File witness making waves about the idiotic and sometimes criminal performance of the "men" whom they "appoint."

    Why don't they tell the rank and file that in court cases these "GB appointmented" men are represented to be "unpaid volunteers"? Which are they?

    I was one of these "appointed men" and let me tell you, the way you're treated by the branch is definitely more as an "unpaid volunteer" that resembles, in their estimation,

    a mushroom.

  • VanillaMocha73
    VanillaMocha73

    "At times, an elder may not do things as directed by the faithful slave class and its Governing Body. If he continues acting this way, he will have to render an account to Jehovah, "the shepherd and overseer of [our] souls." (1 Peter 2:25) But any failure or mistakes on the part of certain elders would not justify an insubordinate attitude on our part. Jehovah does not bless disobedience and rebellion.-Numbers 12:1, 2, 9-11."

    Translation: At times an elder may sexually molest you or your children. If he continues doing this, Jehovah will take care of him someday. But if we speak up or fail to submit or have a bad attitude about this elder, Jehovah will not bless us.

    That sound reasonable to you?

  • sir82
    sir82

    In every week's study, there is a key sentence or 2 that contains the primary message the WT wants broadcast. Here is this week's:

    At times, an elder may not do things as directed by the faithful slave class and its Governing Body. If he continues acting this way, he will have to render an account to Jehovah

    I.e., "Hey all you elders! If you don't stop ignoring our letters, God is gonna git you!" A bogeyman threat that is their trump card. Odd that they jump straight to it.

    So, are the elders just dimbulbs and can't figure out how to apply the Society's directions, or are they purposely disobeying for whatever reason?

    It is quite fascinating that they admit to all 6.5 million members that they have a massive problem with disobedient elders (if it weren't a huge problem, you can be sure it would never see the light of day - for how many decades was the child abuse issue swept under the rug?)

    Also quite noteworthy: Note that the problem is not "the elders do not do things as directed by the Bible" - instead they "may not do things as directed by the GB". So, if weren't crystal clear before, it certainly is now - if there is any conflict between the Bible and the BOE letters, well, half a guess as to which one loses.

    And the doctrinal shift from "FDS comprising all the anointed" to "FDS = GB only" continues. In years past, that sentence would have read "as directed by the faithful slave class" period - no "and its Geverning Body". They seem to be really hammering in the point that it's the Governing Body that is in charge, not any of those 8000 other spiritually weak cracker munching wine sippers.

  • Odrade
    Odrade

    Yup, "humbly submitting" means that I should not have warned the 'sister' from the Spanish Congregation that her 4 y.o. was sitting on the lap of a child rapist from the English Congregation. Nope, I guess I just didn't understand the elders' reasons for not wanting to protect an innocent child from being molested. It was a bad bad thing I did, telling that 'sister', and I'm glad I was 'lovingly disciplined' for revealing the child rapist.

    Excuse me while I puke.

    Speaking of 'submission,' this article explains the ridiculous conversation I had with my mother last week when she said that in the event that she and my father were medically incapacitated, my brother should make the medical decisions BECAUSE HE IS THE MAN! Not because he is the JW (blood), or because he has more medical comprehension (he doesn't), but because he has a penis.

    I'm rolling my eyes so hard they may pop out.

  • bennyk
    bennyk

    This entire Watchtower article was a steaming pile of horse excrement.

    But any failure or mistakes on the part of certain elders would not justify an insubordinate attitude on our part .

    That must be why John spoke so highly of Diotrephes (3 John 9, 10).

    I'm certain Paul would have encouraged everyone to submit and obey those unfaithful Elders in Ephesus (Acts 20:29,30)

    Jesus evidently did not agree with the GB's thinking, for he says regarding the Congregation in Ephesus: "I know your deeds... that you cannot bear bad men, and that you put those to the test who say they are Apostles, but they are not, and you found them liars." (Rev. 2: 2)

    The Governing Body would applaud the Nuremberg Defense ("But my superior officer told me I must [insert crime here]"). Does anyone really believe that Jesus, who "searches the kidneys and hearts, and will give to YOU individually according to your deeds" (Rev. 2:23), will accept such an excuse favourably? The Allied Court did not. Apparently the Society wishes to inculcate the thought that others will bear the judgment and punishment for an individual's actions. Yet the Scriptures teach that "each of us will render an account for HIMSELF to God." (Rom. 14: 10)

  • Pistoff
    Pistoff

    Great job Blondie; another in a long line of harassing lessons, each one scarier than the last.

    Rule 1: Obey the elders.

    Rule 2: If they are wrong, see rule #1.

    Did you notice that the did not even say it was OK to report an elder, or question his actions to
    another elder???

    The only consolation: He will have to deal with Jehovah.

    Meanwhile, the entire congregation suffers.

    I hear my BIL use this; he has had a rough time in his hall, and was told to wait on Jehovah. So he waits.

    I told him this is no excuse for bad systems of justice.

    He gave me a dirty look.

  • yesidid
    yesidid

    Thank you again Blondie. What a trooper you are, reviewing the Watchtower for us even though you are not well.

    The analysis was brilliant as usual. You and your posts are very much appreciated.

    It appears the WBTS wants it both ways. They say the flock should obey the elders even though they don’t agree or understand.

    However during the 2 nd world war the branch in Australia conspicuously supported the war effort and most of the publishers did as they were told.

    They had canteens for the army which were manned even by Bethel workers.

    In 1946 Nathan Knorr went to Australia. He reprimanded the rank and file for supporting the war effort. Apparently, in private, some of the

    Witnesses had justified their behaviour by saying they were "only obeying orders" from the branch.

    Well Knorr had large meetings with the Witnesses in all the capital cities. He, in no uncertain terms, reprimanded the rank and file for supporting the war effort.

    He said "obeying orders" was no excuse. He said they should have obeyed their own conscience.

    He then held up the Bible and said, "You had the Bible", in effect chastising them for obeying those in charge.

    Of course the religion has changed from those days and though it was controlling then, it is much, much more so now.

    yesidid

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