Yesterday we have a study of the watchtower about obedience and submission. this study arose a lot of questions and heightened emotions in me and the interested retired Judge sitting besides me. we came accross the 9th pharagraph, page 28 of the april 1, 2007, where it says that: "It is easy to obey when everything is clear and we agree, but we will show that we are trully submissive if we yeild even when we do not personally understand the direction provided. peter, who later became an apostle, showed this kind of submission.-luke 5:4,5" i told him that this kind of arrangement is a little bit dangerous as it demands unquestionable obedience and could be manipulated by power-hungry individuals. He said back to me that this system of arrangement is like Hitlers'. I was shocked by his response!! what might be your comments about this topic?
Our Watchtower Study On obedience & submission
by dark angle 64 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Honesty
what might be your comments about this topic?
One of the reasons I am now a very happy ex Jehovah's Witless.
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dawg
That's my biggest problam with the org. Submission to men and the inability to think for oneself. Mind control plain and simple. Huff
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MinisterAmos
This was easily the most bizzare WT study that I can remember.
In one article they managed to link the Elders to Christ, the GB to Jehovah and the R&F as a bunch of stupid degenerates.
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Hortensia
well, you know, it's true. That's the kind of reasoning a Hitler uses to control people. It's dangerous. The best thing any of us can do is question everything. I remember some discussions with my husband and previous boyfriends who felt that in some circumstances I should obey first and ask questions later. My line of reasoning was that it took a lot less time if they said WHY they wanted me to take some course of action. Then I could agree or not, but either way I could make a responsible choice of my own. Once you start that unquestioning obedience shit, you don't know where you'll wind up - dirt poor after 40 years of witnessing? Drinking poison kool-aid? standing by as your government attempts to murder an entire race?
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dark angle
I felt that this kind of reason goes against anyones right to freedom and liberty. anyone should have the right to know the reasons for beliefs and policies.almost all educated, intelligent, free persons demand to know the reason behind policies and to assess it whether is it true or not, practical or not, reasonable or unreasonable. Jesus himself said that the truth shall make us free, not slaves!!! i hate you members of the governing body as you try to exploit and manipulate the word of God for you own power-trip agenda. May God bring upon you whats deserving for you.
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cyberdyne systems 101
Christianity is all about your own conscience, not having to rely on others to answer each circumstance you face. Its not about blindly submitting to men, but being able to discern for yourself whats right and wrong as you understand it, to your level of spirituality. On judgement day people won't be able to say 'they told me what to do'. Its clearly wrong, its very cultish and obviously shows the leaders fear losing their grip on those minds they have so cleverly and deviously captivated.
CS 101
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WTWizard
Blind obedience and submission means stagnation. And that is especially true when they will cut off any support from you if you mess up. And that is worse when the people in charge are out for power at all costs.
They don't realize that the organization cannot be any stronger or better than its members. That is true whether you are dealing with a forum, a workplace, business, or government. (At least with a forum or business, you can start a competitor if you don't like the one you're in and outflank the original one if you are actually superior. With the Tower, you can't.) Just as you cannot have a good forum with only crap posters or a good business with lousy employees, you cannot have a good religion with the dregs left and everyone that's half as intelligent as a cockroach leaving.
And blindly obeying leadership holds down those who could improve the religion. Look at what happened to Raymond Franz. He was trying to improve the Watchtower Society, but all he got was a swift kick in the @#@. Elders who try to better their congregations (and maybe even starting to succeed) get harassed by the hounder-hounder, usually for petty rule violations. What happens is that these potential value creators are driven (or kicked) out of the organization, and the drones who cannot but blindly follow the leaders are left. And then the organization cannot get out of its own way, and it will soon fall when people leave and no one takes their place. After all, who wants to belong to an organization that doesn't factor in the members' needs?
I think this study is (or deserves to be) the end of the Tower. People should have a hard time accepting blind obedience to leaders that are power hungry. Bad enough to say "If you don't like it, then leave". At least that way, people would have the opportunity to go to another religion, drop out, or start another religion. But, the punishments and holding families and jobs hostage, and sometimes even death threats and ruining the person's credit history with abuse of account numbers, people are forced to stay with nowhere to go. And they are brainwashed into believing that there really is nowhere else. That tower has to go.
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Quandary
Sitting through that lesson yesterday was the most uncomfortable experience I have ever had in a meeting! Just imagine what they will be spewing begining with the Jan '08 "members only" issue! One positive note, our conductor had a very hard time finding raised hands in the audience. Something tells me that I was not the only one who felt uncomortable with what was being studied.
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WTWizard
Well, then it was a good thing I blew it off. I saw Blondie's comments on the study, which more than made up for that I was not there. Besides, why should I take any further part in what I now know is a scam?