Lawrence, I thought I was going to soil my computer in trying to forget song #69. I'm still trying to forget Song # 10 From House to House. These damn songs are ingrained in our conciousness from youth. Thank you very much for bringing that memory up. Just what I needed getting up from my afternoon nap. I'd much rather be humming , " Stairway to Heaven" by Led Zeppelin or some real classic with substance. Just teasin' ya. LOL.
Our Watchtower Study On obedience & submission
by dark angle 64 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Elsewhere
Oh I am savoring the irony. The WTS used to condemn other religions for having "mysteries" in their teachings... things that could not be explained but were expected to be believed.
*** Watchtower - 1973 10/15 pp. 627-628 Why People of All Kinds Are Becoming Jehovah’s Witnesses ***
CONFUSED ABOUT CHURCH PRACTICES AND TEACHINGS
Still others who are now Jehovah’s witnesses were perplexed about the teachings and practices of their former churches. Though sincere, they just could not find satisfying answers to their questions. A woman from Chile relates:
“From the age of nine years I wanted to serve God and, being a Roman Catholic, I admired the priests and nuns. At twenty-two years of age I entered the convent to begin my training as a nun. The teaching of the Trinity perplexed me and the explanation that it was a mystery was not satisfying. However, I took my first vows of silence, poverty, suffering and chastity. Then disillusion really began. I thought that serving God as a nun would be a constant source of joy and happiness. How wrong I was! The Bible was considered a book of magic and not to be touched; the vows of silence meant that we could not talk, only pray; we were given food unfit for humans; each of us was required to go to our cells and remove our clothing and, using a whip, beat ourselves. Some fainted while punishing themselves. I could not help but wonder if God really required all of this. Thereafter I made up my mind to leave. While the Mother Superior was away I left for home.
“One day I learned the Second Commandment, which was against the worship of images. This surprised me, as image worship was a part of our daily life in the convent. This awakened in me a strong desire to learn the Bible. I earnestly prayed to God that in some way I might obtain a Bible and have someone teach me. (It was at this time that I had decided, due to fear, that I would return to the convent.)
“Shortly thereafter a man came to our door and said: ‘Good morning, we are offering free Bible studies to the people.’ I was speechless. My prayer had been answered!
“A Bible study commenced. What marvelous things I learned! For some time I did not tell the Witness that I had been studying to become a nun, for fear that he would not continue the study. However, when I revealed to him this fact his joy was as great as mine in helping me to free myself from such great imprisonment.
“Now I have learned that serving Jehovah is what I always thought it would be, a real joy and pleasure.”
At times, because of former religious training, some have had a prejudiced viewpoint as to Jehovah’s witnesses. But disappointment with their own church contributed to their putting this prejudice aside and listening. From a woman in Finland comes this experience:
“I had a strict religious upbringing. While I was young, my father prayed that none of his children would ever become Communists or Jehovah’s witnesses. When the time came to choose a career, I decided to become a servant of the church. So I enrolled at the Christian Folk High School. There we students were repeatedly warned against Jehovah’s witnesses. They were said to be heretics who even deny the ransom.
“When deaconesses were sought from among us, I was prepared to accept. This required further education. Of course, I was anxious to learn as much as possible and so I kept raising questions about many things. My teachers did not like that. They did try to handle me gently, though, and said: ‘It is good that you ask about these things, but imperfect humans can never fully understand the Bible. You have no doubt noticed that its writers, such as the apostle Paul, for example, were just as imperfect as we are. The Bible is not all God’s Word; there are also men’s thoughts in it as well.’ [Elsewhere Note: NOTICE, the WTS is now using this very same example that they condemned in this old article!!! ]
“God became more distant and unknown to me, but in spite of everything, after six years of study I received the bishop’s blessing to start my career as a deaconess. I was, however, unhappy. In this work my personality became torn apart and I came to a spiritual dead end. I can say that the Bible was practically torn apart before my eyes and in my hearing. Some time later I got married and this was partially my salvation. My husband was unprejudiced and so, on one occasion, he invited two of Jehovah’s witnesses in. At my husband’s wish a Bible study was started in our home. Due to my earlier training, I looked on Jehovah’s witnesses as unclean Samaritans, but to my surprise I soon discovered that they regarded the whole Bible as God’s Word. It was not long before I eagerly joined in the Bible study. Soon the whole family accepted the truth and now we rejoice in Jehovah’s pure worship.”
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flipper
Sf, Mr. Flipper here, in answer to your question (now that I'm recovering from Lawrence's comical thread) is my 22 year old son and myself confronted the elders about this watchtower at an appeal meeting for my dfing on false trumped up charges. My son was in the room as my witness to support me against 6 numbingly brain dead cloned elders. My motives were to let them know one of the reasons I've doubted this organization for so many years(4) while trying to fade peacefully, (not happening ). I told them that because of having been treated unjustly by elders in the past I had real doubts as to whether I could trust them now. You as many on this thread might have been proud of my son and I how we controlled the tempo of the meeting and made them listen to our reasons for the watchtower article being so unjust and unfair. My son had waited for years to tell them what he has learned in college and how they are a group of people who are told what they will believe and never allowed to do outside research to challenge their beliefs or confirm if what they believe is right. He told the elders ," this is all you know, it's the only vantage point you have, no others." Then one elder tried to chime in and say," We get different vantage points, we talk to many people at the door and listen to them". My son said," But it goes in one ear and out the other, you don't really listen. I know I used to do this." I was so proud of my son standing up to them. I haven't attended meetings in years, but wanted to let them know too how I feel ,if not for me, maybe if one of them ever has doubts it might make them think.Anyway my son and I got them so overwhelmed with this stuff they almost forgot why they were meeting with me. After 2 hours they said they couldn't come to a decision , they'd let me know in a couple of weeks.Hope I answered your questions Sf, if it helps anybody get out then great, but we wanted to get our voice heard to these elders. Mr. Flipper
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DaCheech
Just imagine what they will be spewing begining with the Jan '08 "members only" issue!
Our elder that was reading the watchtower commented this:
"many of us before wondered why people in the territory had to read the articles that are very hard to understand....... well: we should have not rebelled --> for in due time, the slave has changed the mags in order to fix this....."
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dark angle
Flipper, you said: " Especially on the point late in the article where it says essentially what if the elders aren't in harmony or carrying out what the governing body says? Does that give reason for some to show insubordination to the elders? The article said witnesses should still obey and the biggest catch phrase on earth, ( leave it in Jehovah's hands and in time he will take care of it, show respect for Him and still obey.) I told the elders this was ridiculous counsel, and that God wants us to use our free will and conscience to make decisions. If the elders told you to jump off a cliff would you, I asked? Then I thought privately to myself, " God I hope these brainwashed elders do jump off a cliff" how evil of me!!!!"........................................................................... Very nice argument there, it put a laugh on my face. I too discuss it with some witness in the KH after the wt study. I argued that if a witness knew that a certain direction of an elder is wrong and is against the society's policy or against a biblical principle, and yet he willfully still follow the elders direction, that shows a blatant disregard to Jehovah. That makes him wicked because he knew it was wrong and still willfully yield to the elders' wish. The witness i was talking with was speechless for a while thinking and then he said the the society might not held you accountable because you were just following instruction. i refute back that Jehovah punished not only corah and his elders but also those who were following him. he was speechless again.
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juni
I've enjoyed reading all of your comments. Lawrence that was a good one!
We're all on the same page w/this obedience/submission thinking in the JW religion. It's been pointed out to me by a friend that the members have become more "brain dead". Dead is dead; don't know how one can get "deader", but that's what happens when you hand over your mind to a control group.
That is how some very intelligent people are able to "drink the Kool-Ade". Frightening isn't it?
Juni
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blondie
A few months before we faded (no meetings, no assemblies/conventions, no weddings/funerals), we imagined what the new security doors were really for. To keep us in or the criminals out. We imagined how we would leave, which door, would the attendants prevent exit, would there be koolaid. Now in reality I think that the elders are wusses and would never risk their own lives for any reason. But it was the relentless control from the stage and the spying out what everyone does and says. But worse than being held captive physically is being captive to a concept. Thank god we are free at last.
Blondie
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dark angle
good for you blondie, i hope someday, i'll have the freedom you have
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dark angle
Elsewhere, Very helpful argument you posted. gives me more weapons to confront again the elders in our cong. thanks
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Sunspot
Christianity is all about your own conscience, not having to rely on others to answer each circumstance you face. Its not about blindly submitting to men, but being able to discern for yourself whats right and wrong as you understand it, to your level of spirituality. On judgement day people won't be able to say 'they told me what to do'. Its clearly wrong, its very cultish and obviously shows the leaders fear losing their grip on those minds they have so cleverly and deviously captivated.
I SO can relate to what this poster wrote! (Sorry I forgot the name already though) but we CAN'T pass the buck to someone else when WE realize what we did was morally wrong----like shunning your own baptized children when they decided the WTS wasn't for THEM at age 19, etc. Now MY family "can't" associate with ME because I saw through the garbage the WTS prints and teaches as "truth".
It is an evil and vicious circle that the WTS has devised to control its remaining members and keep them from learning what WE all know---that the men of the Watchtower are frauds. Being loyal and obedient to purposely deceptive frauds does not interest me any longer.