After reading many topics.. I'm confused. Is this a JW forum or an ANTI-JW? (page 7)

elliej

Welcome MichaelM. Just a thought: If they really have the truth, then you have nothing to fear from being here and reading the criticism. If it is really the truth it can stand up to it.

Wasanelder Once

Mike,

Welcome,

JW's often illustrate the need for pure worship this way, "if you have a clear glass of water, would you drink it? What if there were one drop of poison in it, would you drink it then?"

This is the most dishonest of questions. They allow whatever drop of poison is inconvenient to remove. Look at the history of this organization and its fixation on setting dates for the end of the world. Then most telling is the way they have manipulated their words about 1914. They said it would be the end of the world and when it didn't happen they changed it to the beginning of the end.

Then they said it was 1925 when it would come. When it didn't they denied that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRe96uty21w

They will lie on the stand under oath to keep the organization from looking bad. Watch this elder talking about disfellowshiping. What a liar. If you ever disagree with anything in the future they will kick you out and none of them will speak with you again. If your family were in the "TRUTH" they too would never speak with you again. That's one source of bitterness here. Many have been ousted because they came to different conclusions on certain silly doctrines.

Here's an elder under oath who has no respect for the law when an honest answer would expose how heartless they are!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzYg-cVj-RE

Just a little poison.

W.Once

MeneMene

"They don't want to know how much money we give them ..." (but they sure don't mind begging for more all the time at the local Kingdom Halls and at all assemblies. They brag that they don't pass the collection plate. They have better more effective methods of getting money out of their followers. Also check out the November Watchtowers [I believe that is the correct issue] - every year they provide detailed instructions how to leave all your $$, stocks, bonds and property to them.)

They won't provide a financial report on the organization either. Just ask for a copy of their latest complete financial report and see what you get. In some countries they are required to release it. Someone here on JWD just recently posted the UK financial report. You will not see that for the US.

I recently asked my mother where is the latest financial report. She handed me the Feb 1, 2007 Watchtower which lists all the publisher statistics. At the very end it shows a $ amount that was supposedly spent. They will not provide the total donations; the total of their assets; the amount they spend on lawyers fighting the child abuse lawsuits, the amount they spend settling lawsuits against them, etc.

OnTheWayOut

He has said to just go to the Watchtower

Yes, they say to just trust their own writings about themselves, all others will lie, they say.

When a politician says that, there may be some others out there that lie about him, but
what would prevent him from misleading people if he knew they would not listen to his
opponents? "Trust me only, don't listen to anything the others say about me."

The difference would be that we measure what he says against what they say. That way,
we can pick out his lies or his opponents' lies about him. You need to read what outsiders say
and measure it against what the Watchtower says. Go to jwfacts.com and check it out.

johnny cip

michael. your getting a lot of great advice here. mOSHE really nailed it. with the millionaire poll the aduence. since your a study. every jw that talks to you or studies with you. is counting time. kind of like punching a clock at work. jw's have to hand in a report every month on all the time they preach etc. it's a detailed report. don't hand it in and your in hot water. ask your study conductor if they are counting time every time they talk/study with you? they will not like the question. then ask how much time they have (time card) =pay in the jw system. they have gotten off of you ? to appease the elders. ever noticed they keep bringing around different jw's to study with you? they are all counting time( punching the clock) time= pay in the wt world. tell them you will only study with them if they put their hand on the bible that they will not count time studing with you. and watch how fast they run. as soon as you cut off their time they will drop you like a hot potato. just for a test next time a jw calls you on the phone, ask if they are counting time? if you go to a book study and your the only non jw there every jw there will count that hour as time. just tell them they can't count time on you. and they will hate you more than satan himself. john

OnTheWayOut

Didn't jesus ask for his fathers help or guidance? Why would he have to do that if he was God himself? How can God create someone of equal power to him? Why would you wear a cross if Jesus died on a cross? If he got shot by a gun would you wear a gun around your neck? Idols of worship like pictures and items aren't needed.. These things I like and make sense to me.

In the grand scheme of debate, these would be distractions or "straw men" from the real debate.
The real issue is whether these folks teach the truth or not.

If these topics make sense to you, then let's go further.
Watchtower teaches that in 1914, Jesus started ruling the earth invisibly. The Greek scriptures were only
written for 144,000 people that will serve as kings with Jesus in heaven. All others don't have Christ as their
mediator with God. Mankind has been on the earth only a bit more than 6000 years. The story of Noah and
the flood is 100% literal. All life on earth survived that flood less than 5000 years ago, and somehow some of
the animals got from the resting place of the ark down to Australia, and became totally isolated. Science is
totally wrong about carbon dating and how man and animals have spread throughout the earth.

Just because Witnesses can have simple answers to questions you never thought of, doesn't mean their answers
are right. Just because they highlight their simple view of the Bible to you, doesn't mean their theology isn't
chock full of complicated stuff that is extremely difficult to understand.

apostolic2007

be very careful of the hatred of JWs here and other similar sites... a quick search of posts will reveal this. Also be careful of some JWs tendency to blindly accept teachings. But that doesnt mean it isnt the truth.

nvrgnbk

Just come out and directly ask your "teacher" if he really believes all of "it" 100% or if he has or has had at one time certain doubts.

Then ask him what his doubts were about and how he got over them.

If he is an honest person, he will admit to having doubts about the teachings.

I'v never spoken to an elder that hasn't admitted that to me.

They just finish up with " where else are we gonna go?".

Pubsinger

be very careful of the hatred of JWs here and other similar sites... a quick search of posts will reveal this. Also be careful of some JWs tendency to blindly accept teachings. But that doesnt mean it isnt the truth.

while i would agree that hatred of JWs is wrong, keep your wits about you.

Just because a group is hated by some, doesn't mean that they are right - you may find that they try to say that any persecution PROVES they are the true religion - which is very poor reasoning.

Neither of the two points mentioned here are helpful in decerning truth. However if you focus on either of these you will find your focus shifted in your search for truth.

You'll get quite good at spotting red herrings.

You will find tho that JWs are actually ADVISED to HATE people who leave the organisation having uncovered information about it.

MeneMene

I forgot to say Welcome to you earlier. I was a 3rd Generation JW but left many years ago.

While doing your research take time to read up on Johannes Greber. Lady Lee posted some detailed info on him at www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/125625/1.ashx. Here are some others with interesting details: www.ecrater.com/product.php?pid=555122; www.witnessinc.com/greber.html

Just Google Johannes Greber and read as much as you want.

Another interesting person is C.J. Woodworth. He was a major individual during the Rutherford period of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society (WTBTS). He wrote the commentary on Revelation in the 1917 book The Finished Mystery. Rutherford made him editor of The Golden Age magazine (later called Consolation - then Awake) from its inaugural edition in 1919 to 1946. Here's one good site for info on Woodworth: www.geocities.com/Heartland/2919/wood.html.

OnTheWayOut just mentioned www.jwfacts.com. If you haven't already heard of "New Light" or the "Light Gets Brighter" get ready. That is how they explain all their doctrine changes (i.e., false prophesies). Here is a good link about "Light": www.jwfacts.com/index_files/light.htm.

Also on www.jwfacts.com/index_files/Jehovah.htm there is an excellent discussion on God's name.

One last thing - note in the NWT at the end of the FOREWARD they actually advise the reader that they have inserted words "to complete the sense in the English text;" The "interpolations" are indicated by brackets [ ] in the text.

Webster's Encyclopedic Unabridged Dictionary defines "interpolate" as "1. to introduce (something additional or extraneous) between other things or parts; interject; ... 2. Math. ... 3. to alter (a text) by the insertion of new matter, esp. deceptively or without authorization. 4. to insert (new or spurious matter) in this manner. 5. to make an interpolation."

All of the above are things that I learned in the last year. None of them I knew while I was a JW for 30+ years.

After reading many topics.. I'm confused. Is this a JW forum or an ANTI-JW?

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