Sheep, other sheep, other other sheep, Three classes of sheep? (page 3)

garybuss

You wrote: "No wonder the sheep and goats are still mixed. I can understand that, but as I type it, my head is spinning from the loopy logic." Thanks! Your post agrees with my memory.

Now: The little flock can not be judged, separated, or sealed because after May 1, 2007 the first choice members of the little flock are still being selected for the heavenly line. That means the initial phase of Jesus' "presence" is still in progress. That sets the progress clock back over 70 years. The little flock is not sealed, and the sheep are not separated from the goats.

Doctrinally, they are almost back to the point where Rutherford took over. Much of Franz's and most of Knorr's work is in the dumpster.

But now: The Watch Tower writing does appear to be saying there are two groups of "other sheep" as Paralipomenon wrote:

1) Little flock
2) Other sheep already separated
3) Other sheep still in the goats

But who judged the sheep already selected? It wasn't Jesus according to the Society.

johnny cip

gary; why don't you start writing about RUSTY FENDERS and the gang some more. amybe they can get some sheeps and goats. to help grandma drink that elderberry wine. i've been waiting for some new laughs. those stories are great but i read them a dozen times already. john

Pubsinger

Pubsinger , The paragraph is read BEFORE the question now? How lame is that?

I've been left 8 years and it certainly wasn't new.

Must be 20 years . . . anyone else?

garybuss

Hi johnny cip, I could write more. I have lots of material. My visible inspiration has been my wife and she's really funny. Most of my writings are not stories, they are memories:-)

We had one circuit servant who got his trailer house stuck in the mud bog behind our house and he stayed at our congregation for three weeks till it dried up enough for us to pull him out with the Farmall Regular. We had new things returned three Saturday nights in a row. It messed up our drive in movie night three weeks running.

bennyk

The difference between the Other Sheep and the Sheep of Matthew chap. 25 is very subtle. (It is also incorrect). The Other Sheep are "people having the prospect of life on earth" (could include just about anyone who dies at least five minutes before the Great Tribulation), whereas the Sheep (Matt. 25) are "people being judicially separated in a final sense to life." These definitions are found in the *** w95 4/15 p. 31 Questions From Readers bzw. the w97 7/1 pp. 30-31 Questions From Readers.

It was because Matt. 25 portrays the judgment as final that Russell placed it in a future Millennium; the Society now places it after the Great Tribulation begins. NOTE THIS: What is really astounding is that the WTS' new teaching means the Great Crowd (the subset of Other Sheep who survive Armageddon) should in theory be "judicially separated in a final sense to life" -- emphatically NOT to a thousand year Judgment Day, after which they might finally "come to life" (Rev. 20:5). I don't believe the Society thought it through... as is typical.

Mum

I feel very blessed to no longer be a "sheep." I would never figure out which flock I was supposed to be with. It sounds like another Watchtower caste system.

Rejoicing that I no longer need someone to follow and have entered into the joy of having no master, I remain,

SandraC

garybuss

Thanks bennyk, So as the Watch Tower teaching stands, the separation of the sheep and the goats that occurs after the Great Tribulation, could occur AFTER the end of the 1,000 year judgment period. That would mean the goats would live with the sheep applicants for one thousand years. Am I following you?

If I can be a goat and still live for 1,000 years, why would I want to be a Witness and go door to door and to all those dang meetings?

bennyk, read this thread and please write more. You've got a hook here. I want it laid out so I can understand it. I'm here to learn.

More posters! What think you all?

Narkissos

Gary,

I apologise for misreading your initial post and helping put the thread off track. I now see your point (also thanks to bennyk's clarification) and it is a very good one.

Indeed, whatever distinctions they make between the "great crowd," the "other sheep" and the "sheep vs. goats," current JWs can only refer to themselves as prospective members of every group. And since every designation is strictly understood from the perspective of final judgement, without any allowance for predestination, yet judgement is divided in at least two distinct periods (great tribulation / end of the millenium), they have cornered themselves in impossible contradiction.

For instance, the "great crowd" is supposed to be included in the broader category of "other sheep". But in fact one could theoretically survive the great tribulation (hence be a member of the "great crowd" and of the "sheep vs. goats" -- inasmuch as Matthew 25 is still connected to the great tribulation, if I understand correctly), still be "sifted out" at the end of the millenium and ultimately not be one of the "other sheep"... unless the "great crowd" and the "sheep vs. goats" are practically granted immortality after the great tribulation, which has never been taught afaik.

Final judgement is lost in the plural number...

TD

OnTheWayOut

The Watch Tower writing does appear to be saying there are two groups of "other sheep"

I believe this is to motivate the Witness rank-and-file. Even though they are not judged
yet, they do their best to separate from the goats now, right before the judging starts. That
way, they are not tempted to do as the goats. They cannot identify anyone as a goat because
that judging hasn't taken place yet. That means that out there in the goatlike vastness, more
"unknown" potential sheep are waiting for the "known" potential sheep to show them the truth.

Really, even though JW's aren't allowed to judge people, they just say goatlike instead of goat, and
sheeplike instead of sheep.

Thanks, Gary, for reminding us that this stuff contradicts itself.
They really need a new oracle.

Sheep, other sheep, other other sheep, Three classes of sheep?

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