The Bible Says that Jesus is God - Definately

by Sirona 41 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  AlphaOmega

  I understand it this way:

  That prior to his birth, he emptied himself of his right to INDEPENDENTLY exercise his divinity at will. He became a 'slave' to God. Then, when he died, he took up that right to exercise his divinity again.

  So, that would allow for him saying that "he could do nothing without the father"

  Phi 2:5-9 CEV

  ...think the same way that Christ Jesus thought:

  (6)

  Christ was truly God. But he did not try to remain equal with God.

  (7)

  Instead he gave up everything and became a slave, when he became like one of us.

  (8)

  Christ was humble. He obeyed God and even died on a cross.

  (9)

  Then God gave Christ the highest place and honored his name above all others.
• 

  Inquisitor

  Noone said anything about a trinity. You don't have to have a trinity if Jesus is God. - Sirona

  That's like asking people to explain what genitals are, without using the word "sex" or "reproduction".

  We cannot possibly talk about the nature of the Son of God WITHOUT discussing the arguments for or against the Trinity. I mean if you think about it, the Trinity debate stems from the juicy debacle on the identity of Jesus Christ. It has less to do with whether or not the Holy Ghost is God.

  You quote scriptures that lend support to the view that Jesus is God, scriptures that the Athanasian camp from antiquity would have quoted as well. This is nothing new. It is no revelation. Those same scriptures can be successfully explained away if you go by a Arian perspective of the texts.

  INQ
• 

  Mary

  Well for me, I believe that God the Father was speaking with God the Son and God the Spirit - God as the Godhead had no co-creator, but as Father, Son and Spirit within the Godhead, they are co-creators.

  If you want to believe that, that's fine. However, there is nothing in the Hebrew scriptures that indicates a "God the Son" or "God the Holy Spirit".

  Maybe those Jews did have a veiled understanding of 'God' being more than one person all those years ago?

  No they did not. The Israelites/Jews have always worshipped YHVH as a monothesis God. They view it as extreme blasphemy to suggest that any man here on earth was actually the God they had been worshipping for 3,000 years.
• 

  Sad emo

  No they did not. The Israelites/Jews have always worshipped YHVH as a monothesis God. They view it as extreme blasphemy to suggest that any man here on earth was actually the God they had been worshipping for 3,000 years.

  So would you say the Genesis verse you quoted was using a 'royal we' then?

  Jesus was crucified for blasphemy - were the Jews correct in their sentence or was Jesus a deluded nutcase (no, he didn't say straight out that he was God but he did say enough to sufficiently annoy the authorities)
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  needproof

  Whoa hold on a minute, is somebody suggesting that the Jews have only ever worshiped ONE God?
• 

  JeffT

  Read "More than a Carpenter" by Josh McDowell. It is a very slim book, and makes the argument much better than I can.
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  AlanF

  The fact is that the Bible does make statements that are contradictory. That's what gives rise to a lot of confusion.

  Revelation 1:1, for example, starts off like this: "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him . . ." This clearly distinguishes between God and Jesus, and directly states that Jesus did not have knowledge of this "revelation" at one point, so that God had to give him this knowledge. Since all of the trinitarian formulations I know of clearly state that the members of the Godhead are equal in all things, including knowledge, this clearly contradicts trinitarian doctrines.

  Yet, Revelation also indicates that "the Lord God" and Jesus are the same being: Revelation 1:8 clearly has "the Lod God" declaring that he is "the Alpha and the Omega", Revelation 22:13 has Jesus (the context is absolutely clear that Jesus is the speaker) declaring that he is "the Alpha and the Omega", and Revelation 21:6 completely mixes the two up.

  The Gospels Matthew, Mark and Luke give no indication that the Father and Son are part of a Godhead, yet the Gospel of John makes statements that are clearly in that direction. Many other NT passages are so ambiguous that they can be interpreted consistently with trinitarian and non-trinitarian concepts. If one accepts traditional dating for the various NT books, one can see an evolution from completely non-trinitarian statements toward a trinitarian view, and this evolution continues smoothly for the next several hundred years as seen in extant Christian writings.

  No wonder Christians have argued about this for nearly 2,000 years!

  AlanF
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  ithinkisee

  If I were to believe the bible I would believe that Jesus is God. It's pretty plainly stated throughout scripture. The Early Church Fathers also emphasized it rather clearly.
  
  But I don't believe the bible.
  
  The only evidence that he is God appears in the Bible. If you look at the politics and drama behind putting the bible together over almost a 400 year period, you will see the Bible itself is not real evidence. Instead it was a hotly contested debate about what anonymous books to include, with a desire to control the masses with a state religion.
  
  This is not proof Jesus is God, my friend.
  
  -ithinkisee
• 

  avidbiblereader

  Does it really matter? This is where so many have it wrong, same way with hellfire, holidays, immortality of the soul, the list goes on and on and on.

  MEN trying to prove they are right and NONE of it brings praise to God the Father through the Lord Jesus Christ. Men/Satan have complicated everything about service to God, NONE of it is important to salvation.

  The Bible speaks about very few things that are really important and essential.

  THE SIMPLISTIC AND TRUTHFUL MESSAGE FROM GOD= Love God with whole heart, mind and strenght, Love neighbor as self, Believe that Christ came to die for us and confess our sins to Them not men, we all are pathetic sinners and as Paul said in No one has any insight or reason to boast in anything but our weaknesses and in God's love in Christ

  Romans 3:4,9-18

  verse 4 Of course not! Even if everyone else is a liar, God is true. As the Scriptures say about him,

  “You will be proved right in what you say,
  and you will win your case in court.”

  Verses 9-18 9 Well then, should we conclude that we Jews are better than others? No, not at all, for we have already shown that all people, whether Jews or Gentiles, [ c ] are under the power of sin. 10 As the Scriptures say,

  “No one is righteous—
  not even one.
  11 No one is truly wise;
  no one is seeking God.
  12 All have turned away;
  all have become useless.
  No one does good,
  not a single one.” [ d ]
  13 “Their talk is foul, like the stench from an open grave.
  Their tongues are filled with lies.”
  “Snake venom drips from their lips.” [ e ]
  14 “Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.” [ f ]
  15 “They rush to commit murder.
  16 Destruction and misery always follow them.
  17 They don’t know where to find peace.” [ g ]
  18 “They have no fear of God at all.” [

  Respectfully abr
• 

  XBEHERE

  I honestly don't know what to believe concerning Jesus and I still tend to believe that the bible is from god...for the most part.

  Question though, if the Jews and now the JWs believed that there is only one true god then according to John 1:1 the JWs say Jesus is "a" god...so is he a false god then? Because Jehovah is.. one Jehovah, he is the one and only TRUE god correct?