AO, question, when did Jesus become anointed, before his submersion or after coming out of the water? Apparently some 'act' had to be performed before being anointed, right or wrong? What act did the apostles have to do to be anointed?
Golf
Please put your JW heads back on for a moment... (Memorial Meal)
by AlphaOmega 46 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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golf2
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Guest with Questions
As with many JW beliefs, the JW Memorial really confuses me.
Why, if Jesus came back in 1914, do JW's still partake, when Jesus said do this in memory of me till I come back?
If only the annointed should partake, why do women partake, when the disciples were clearly all men?
Why do the "Great Crowd" come all dressed up merely to observe? Jesus and his disciples didn't have people around just to observe.
My understanding is that all members of the family (young and old-male and female) partook of the Jewish Passover.
And this day shall become a memorial for you, and you shall observe it as a festival for the L-RD, for your generations, as an eternal decree shall you observe it. For seven days you shall eat unleavened bread, but on the first day you shall remove the leaven from your homes ... you shall guard the unleavened bread, because on this very day I will take you out of the land of Egypt; you shall observe this day for your generations as an eternal decree. - Exodus 12:14-17
Of all the Jewish holidays, Pesach is the one most commonly observed, even by otherwise non-observant Jews. According to the 1990 National Jewish Population Survey (NJPS), more than 80% of Jews have attended a Pesach seder.
Feast of Passover
Celebrated on 14 day of Abib (April Ex. 13:4) G-d chose this date (Exodus 12:1,2)
Lambs used in sacrifice
(1) In Genesis the lamb was slain for the individual (Gen 4:4).
(2) In Exodus the lamb was slain for the family (house), (Ex 12:3––––4).
(3) In Leviticus the lamb was slain for the nation (Lev 16).
(4) In the New Testament the Lamb of G-d was slain for the sin of the world (Jn 1:29).
Without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins (Heb 9:22).
In John 6:53-54, Jesus said, ""Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves. 54" "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day," (NASB).
"Is not the cup of blessing which we bless a sharing in the blood of Christ? Is not the bread which we break a sharing in the body of Christ? 17 Since there is one bread, we who are many are one body; for we all partake of the one bread. 18 Look at the nation Israel; are not those who eat the sacrifices sharers in the altar?" (1 Cor. 10:16-18, NASB).
Unless someone can correct me on this, I personally believe that the chosen spoken of in the NT are the Jews, God’s chosen people. God made an everlasting covenant with them, the apple of His eye.
Hope this post isn’t too haphazard, but I’m copying and pasting from some of my personal files - info that I have acquired in the past few years.
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AlphaOmega
Golf said...
AO, question, when did Jesus become anointed, before his submersion or after coming out of the water? Apparently some 'act' had to be performed before being anointed, right or wrong? What act did the apostles have to do to be anointed?
GolfGood question !
I think that it is wrong to compare Jesus' Baptism and subsequent anointing with the anointing of his Disciples because Jesus is in a class of his own. He was born sin free and sent by God. Who else can claim that ?
As for the anointing of the Disciples...
The Holy Spirit comes through faith in Jesus (Galatians 3:14)
The only "act" that I can see was "doing as Jesus had commanded" :
So that must also apply to us as his modern disciples. The other thing that pops into my head is Ask and you shall receive, knock and the door shall be opened...Act 1:4-5 CEV
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While he was still with them, he said: Don't leave Jerusalem yet. Wait here for the Father to give you the Holy Spirit, just as I told you he has promised to do.(5)
John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.Luk 11:9-10 CEV
(9)
So I tell you to ask and you will receive, search and you will find, knock and the door will be opened for you.(10)
Everyone who asks will receive, everyone who searches will find, and the door will be opened for everyone who knocks. -
Guest with Questions
I think that it is wrong to compare Jesus' Baptism and subsequent anointing
"Christ" being the Greek word meaning Messiah, the anointed one "Jesus Christ".
Jesus was the Christ or annointed one at birth.
Luke 2:11 Today in the town of David a Saviour has been born to you: he is Christ the Lord.
He did not become the Christ at his baptism.
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AlphaOmega
Guest With Questions...
I undertstand that. It is something of a dilema. Something happened at his Baptism.
Maybe the Spirit decending on him was just visual confirmation for the crowd. Maybe they needed to see it to believe it.
He was indeed the Christ / Anointed One from birth. That is why I said the two shouldn't be compared. I didn't want to confuse the issue.
I sometimes find it hard to work out who to address my posts to. If I am addressing a JW (knowingly) then I will focus on some points and not on others - as it is easy to get hung up on a sidetrack.
AO
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unbaptized
Unbabtized, do you really believe that out of all the people in the world Jehaovah could only find a handful of Americans to do his work worldwide? The governing body have been mainly old American men since the beginning of the WBTS. Why is it that all the books and mags published are written by the writing commitee and not by the annointed ones around the world? Hello Mrs. Smith, Yes I believe it. When Jehovah created humans he did not fill the entire planet with humans, he only created two and they multiplied. When he created the Nation of Israel, he only needed Abram and Sarai. They became a mighty nation that exits to this day! Unlike mankind, Jehovah only needs a handful to get his point across.
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Wordly Andre
I think about that every sunday at Mass, Jesus even allowed Judas to partake in his body and blood and the JW's wont even allow R&F???
Hummm
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unbaptized
When Jesus was a child he was perfect without sin, but he wasn't King. The angels were joyful because they knew that Jesus was the answer to mankinds problems. John also knew that Jesus was the solution, he did not want to baptize him at first. But it was done as commanded. To fulfill scripture. Jesus did not become anointed until after he was baptized with water.
I feel that those called by Jehovah or Jesus are of the 144,000. Jesus said that many are invited, but only few are chosen. Also he made mention in his story that those who are not dressed in proper wedding attire will be cast out into the darkness. So if you were not truly called by Jehovah or Jesus you are not of this fold. So you can partake of these emblems, but that does not mean you are truly invited.
To the brothers outright telling people they are not anointed, they are going to answer to God for that. For the brothers out there who sincerely respect peoples decisions to partake and not judge, I got nothing but love for you.
I feel that those called to this fold are literally called by Jehovah or Jesus. I also believe the calling they recieve is their token of what's to come. They can truly say within their hearts that they are of the 144000. The Apostles were sanctified in Heaven by Jesus, he charged them to cast out spirits and perform healing by means of Jehovahs spirit. To my understanding no prophet before them was able to do the things they were doing. So Jesus had already arranged for them to be with him in Heaven.
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AlphaOmega
144,000...
Revelation 7:4-8 MKJV
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And I heard the number of those who were sealed, one hundred and forty-four thousands, having been sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel.[5]
Out of the tribe of Judah, twelve thousand had been sealed. Out of the tribe of Reuben, twelve thousand had been sealed. Out of the tribe of Gad, twelve thousand had been sealed.[6]
Out of the tribe of Asher, twelve thousand had been sealed. Out of the tribe of Naphtali, twelve thousand had been sealed. Out of the tribe of Manasseh, twelve thousand had been sealed.[7]
Out of the tribe of Simeon, twelve thousand had been sealed. Out of the tribe of Levi, twelve thousand had been sealed. Out of the tribe of Issachar, twelve thousand had been sealed.[8]
Out of the tribe of Zebulun, twelve thousand had been sealed. Out of the tribe of Joseph, twelve thousand had been sealed. Out of the tribe of Benjamin, twelve thousand had been sealed.Revelation 14:3-5 MKJV
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And they sang as it were a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. And no one could learn that song except the hundred and forty-four thousands who were redeemed from the earth.[4]
These are those who were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are those who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These were redeemed from among men, as a firstfruit to God and to the Lamb.[5]
And in their mouth was found no guile, for they were without blemish before the throne of God.If the passage is LITERAL then the 144,000 are :
- Male
- Jewish
- Virgins
If it is not literal, then the chosen ones can be whomever you choose (depending on how you spititualise the passage). The one thing that is certain is that if you DO spiritualise the passage, 144,000 cannot also be taken literally and therefore must be symbolic.
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unbaptized
By who's conclusion? We know it can't be the literal Israelite Nation because they rejected Jesus and killed him. A lot of the Jews became christians and followed Jesus and his Apostles. But the Nation as a whole rejected him. Jesus basically sumed it up in regards to who are these chosen ones when he told the story in Mathew 22:1-14. That story clears up everything.